Shooting down of Malaysia Airlines plane: Some questions

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This is tragic. Reports of an MH plane crash in eastern Ukraine, near the border with Russia. The plane was believed to be carrying close to 300 people from Amsterdam to KL.

It is not clear if the plane was shot down. But a Ukrainian interior ministry adviser has accused separatists of shooting down the plane. He said the plane was cruising at an altitude of 33000 feet when it was shot down with a BUK launcher. But let’s not rule out other possibilities, as analysts have said this is something only a professional military force could undertake.

Accoring to Russia Today:
According to the Russian Defense Ministry information, units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine located in the crash-site are equipped with anti-aircraft missile systems of “Buk-M1” … These complexes in their tactical and technical characteristics are capable of detecting air targets at ranges of up to 160 kilometers and hit them at full altitude range at a distance of over 30 kilometers,” the ministry’s statement reads as cited by Ria.

A few questions arise:

Why was MH17 flying over a known warzone instead of staying well clear (though other commercial aircraft were also flying in the same area)?

Why fly over an area in which two Ukrainian aircraft had been shot down just days earlier? Was Malaysia Airlines trying to save fuel by using this flight path as some reports have suggested?

Was MH17 flying at a safe higher altitude?

What sort of warnings did Ukrainian aviation authorities issue before this?

Was MH17 on its usual route or did it divert from its usual flight path? CBS News reports that MH17’s fight path had deviated further north from its usual route.

It is not clear why it flew over eastern Ukraine, a region which the Ukrainian aviation authorities had closed to all commercial flights on 8 July.

Reuters, however, reports:

Malaysia Airlines said on Friday the flight route taken by an airliner that came down in Ukraine had been declared safe by the U.N. aviation arm, the International Civil Aviation Organisation.

It also said the International Air Transportation Association “had stated that the airspace the aircraft was traversing was not subject to restrictions”…

Meanwhile, check out this report from a Kiev English-language website, which has reproduced a tapped conversation purportedly between the a commander of the pro-Russian militants and Russian intelligence after the plane had been downed.

Our heartfelt condolences to the families of those who perished.

Is this the end of the road for Malaysia Airlines as a company?

Meanwhile, don’t take your eyes off the Israeli ground offensive in Gaza.

87 COMMENTS

    • Not really.
      MH17 has raised a question why the US & its allies could track real-time the flight path of MH17 prior to disintegration in midair over Ukraine & the cause of explosion while MH370 was untraceable but a guessing game all the way to south Indian Ocean.
      Someone must be lying big time, while others (supposed in the know) are keeping their radars’ mouth shut for fear of reprisals from you know who.

      Big time murder.

       
  1. Malaysia Airlines was struggling even before those disasters and some are wondering whether it can survive. Ron Bartsch, Chairman of AvLaw International, an international aviation safety consultancy firm, says its future depends on the Malaysian government, in this BBC report:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U14JnydhTH8

    What do readers of Anil think?
    Should BN pour more money to sustain MAS?

     
      • You are right. This time 27 sen only instead of the high price Tun M paid to Tajuddin Ramli.

        Tun M said MAS is losing money partly due to the unusual 25-year in-flight catering contract worth RM6.25 billion with Brahim’s Holdings (a company headed by the brother of former PM Tun Abdullah Ahmad Badawi) since 2003.

        Is this the company that provided ‘nasi lemak telanjang’ as complained by Chef Wan?

         
  2. National Union of Flight Attendants Malaysia wants the female crew of Malaysia Airlines to be “given the option to observe Muslim dress code”.

    Is this how MAS to be revamped as an Islamic airline?

     
  3. a late entry to the comments here…normally in the internet there are websites for airplane enthusiast that display radio communication between air traffic controllers and airplane pilots. For those in the US, there is a high degree of openness in publishing this radio contact in the internet. I have hear some of this over at youtube although I’m not a fanatic to this, more of a casual interest in how air traffic controller and pilots talk.

    For this case, MH17 was flying over Ukrainian airspace which mean it was subjected to Ukranian air traffic controllers. My understanding of this line of work is that, there are air traffic controller (ATC) which take care of a certain airspace or air corridor, a sector. Others manage airplane approaches to an airport. And there are those in the airport control tower that take care of aircraft take-off and landing while another group handle the aircraft movement on the airport tarmac. I believe for MH17, it would be handled by those monitoring a certain sector of the air corridor.

    Now, pilots probably have certain autonomy in flying the airplane but I can only guess that they must follow a certain flight plan with which they must filed with the civil aviation authorities. And these pilots will continously report their flight information/status to this area ATC and also to get update or changes of flight path from this ATC.

    One of the pertinent question here is that: For the Ukrainian ATC, they should have published a transcript or voice recording of their ATC on duty before, during and after the incident of MH17. This will help to clear their name over their handling of the situation. Is there any such news conference by the Ukrainian authority over this?

    Other than claims through the news media by the western media, there is not much of such concrete evidence by the Ukrainian authority or the western intelligence.

     
  4. The West should engage Najib to learn how to negotiate ‘softly’ with separatists as Najib has proven to be successful with his ‘I Help You, You Help Me’ approach with the Sulu militants to rescue Sabah hostages without having to pay ransom, so claimed.

     
  5. Malaysian MH 17 false flag….
    conspiracy-theory-secrets.com
    Have you been looking at the satanic numbers already?
    MH 17 – 17-07-2014
    First flight of this plane. ??…~ 17-07-1997……17 years later!!,
    Google for Lagarde and the number 7
    Google for Hilary Clinton ‘The Antichrist’

    Open your eyes instead of reading newspapers and watching the mainstream tv…
    The cabal, the elite, the freemasons…they dont have a heart, their God is Lucifer!!!

    In Holland they are grieving over some dead people who died in an airplane during the news, in the evening they go on with the bbq and their beer! It is sad, yes true…but why are we not grieving over the millions of children who are hungry, or the 500 killed in Gaza???
    What is going on in Gaza, most of the sleepy people dont know…..no Gaza news in the mainstreammedia!!! No, put the attention on MH 17 make the lie bigger and bigger it is a good camouflage….which they, the elite etc, also did before the other two worldwars.
    What they want is a war so blame Putin and Russia and…..sad enough, the sleepy people….they believe it!
    So far, so good!
    Enjoy the day…and wake up your neighbor!

    Be love, do joy, have peace!

     
  6. You see, the Ukrainian, the US and the West are always making wild allegation that the rebel is keeping the black box, tampering the bodies and black box, hindering investigations, preventing the countries concern from entering the areas and so on and so on. Two hundred over bodies have been retrieved and will be snt home and the Pro-Russian rebels hand over black boxes to M’sia. Worse still is many here who know next to nothing are also making wild allegation and start blaming the govt this and that.

    http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2014/07/22/pro-russian-rebels-hand-over-black-boxes-to-msia/

     
  7. All of these question does not amount to a hill of beans compared to the simple one – How far will Najib take on the real (alleged) culprit, which is Putin, and how far will he even get? Putin started all these, the people who pulled the triggers will be eventually take the fall. If Obama is good, he will get Russia to leave Ukraine but only temporarily. When peace falls apart again in Ukraine, Russia and Putin will step back in..

     
  8. We are told by the US and its media that the plane was shot down by a missile (supplied by Russia) by the pro-Russian rebels.

    What if this is another plot hatched by CIA to discredit Russia, and to end the Ukraine crisis?

    Remember 777 is an US-made plane in MH370 and MH17.
    Remember US told (lied) us that Saddam had weapon of mass destruction?
    Could the ‘taped conversations’ between the pro-Russian rebels after the ‘shooting’ was a fake?
    How do we know the plane was shot by missile (as claimed by US), and not ‘remote-controlled’ to explode?

    We can mourn for the lost lives, but we should not be quick to put the blame on Russia based on the information provided by the US authority.

     
  9. Wr424, “The behaviour of the rebels are criminal… We also found similar behaviour at home.”

    However, very unfortunately, not everyone can see that though they have eyes.

    Mr pm said he cannot accept this sort of action and demand the person responsible for this cruel action be brought to justice.

    Was he saying blasting altantuya into powder and throwing beng hock out of the window not cruel??? Any justice done, mr pm ?

    Was the death of altantuya a wilfil act or accident? How about beng hock
    ?

    Two air tragic accidents happened in a period of 4 months, i think it is time for
    soul searching !!! Ask yourself what had you done. The Almighty cant be mocked, be very scared !!!

     
    • Just like PAS using Allah for the tragedy as liquor were served and dresses by the attendants, someone is using God as the justification for the tragedy and to politicize.

      Was the death of alta a wilfil act or accident? How about beng hock?. It was a question mark and nobody yet know what happen. Maybe he should have ask God himself but I doubt he will get any answer whether its Alta, Teoh, MH370. Without an answer he will start to find a scapegoat not only for the death but whatever ills the country may face such as corruption or cronyism. But he does not realize that his own CAT and leaders from PR are just the same.

      Read this and we will know who is using the Rakyat money for their own purpose. How they tried to put their own relatives like wife and sons as MB and candidate. Bukit Gelugor, Selangor and many others are a few examples. The long and winding road is an account of the behind the scene of Pakatan manipulation of the people trust and money in Selangor. Just like in Penang, land, reclaimed land and botak hill, afforadable houses etc were manipulated by the CAT for their own selfish interest. Wonder who do not have the eyes to see

      http://www.malaysia-today.net/the-long-and-winding-road-2/

      The tragedy in Ukraine is not so simple. It was started by the US with the ousting of a democratic elected govt that wanted to align itself to Russia. Thereafter the Ukranian tried to stop the teaching and usage of the Russian language that worsen the situation. Does anyone knows that.?? Don`t simply put it on the rebels and Russia Putin. The US and Western Countries are the one who start it just like they wanted to contain China influence here and through out the world. We must not believed in the lies and deceit of the US and their allies. The Weapon of Mass Destruction (WMD) and bombing of Libya are 2 good examples. Likewise we must not just believed in the lies of the opposition like the Cat and father, the (alleged) sodomizer and the hududer. Lets have an open mind

      And ….Don`t politicize here and using God or your sympathy trying to blame everything on a coalition that won fair and square.

       
  10. Israeli paratrooper on MH17 – no. 9 on passenger list: Itamar Avnon.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-citizen-among-298-killed-on-downed-malaysian-plane/?utm_source=The+Times+of+Israel+Daily+Edition&utm_campaign=42bba7d9be-2014_07_18&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_adb46cec92-42bba7d9be-54624665

    There is supposed to be another Israeli soldier on board, but name not confirmed yet.

    Was shooting down of MH17 planned to divert attention from Gaza invasion?

     
    • He he someone is awake here!!!
      Isnt it strange after a fall from such height…out of a plane, how some bodies look like! Or is it a hoax dummie??
      And passports still in tact??? Even books are still readable….
      Make the lie big enough and people believe it. What is happening now also happened before the two other worldwars….be aware, wake up

       
  11. Latest info released is that MH17 flew lower than 33,000 ft contrary to initial claims by MAS. The war zone was up to 32,000 ft and MH17 believed to have flown at 30,000 ft – MAS now claiming Ukrainian air traffic control OK’d the descent. Was MH17 misidentified as a hostile military transport aircraft?

     
  12. Someone commented in the MC that Putin was evil. I told him on what ground and proof. What about Bush Weapon of Mass Destruction(WMD) pretext to invade Iraq that killed thousand of innocents. Was any WMD found. I think someone will comment hey you people so bodoh support BN & UMNO MIC, MCS & Gerakan etc that we have MH370 & MH17 just like some Muslim Taliban that comment that its because of Allah that an American jet crashed. Tomorrow I believed Anwar, PAS & DAP will be using this same analogy to blame it on Najib and BN.

     
    • People in other parts of the world is going to sue mas which the government (rakyat) is the majority shareholder. All of us have to pay hundrefs of millions ringgits unless mas can prove they have taken all care and safety to kins of those victims.

       
      • Don`t worry. the insurance company will pay. But I bet you will be worrying. After MH370 you thought you have made a killing and now your hand must have been burnt very very serious.

         
      • IF IT IS your grandfather insurance will pay goe flying ovet the dangerzone or conflict zone

         
      • Someone is just plain stupid to say if it is your grandfather insurance. If the airline is my grandfather airline, my grandfather would definitely ask the insurance company to pay. If my grandfather airline buy the insurance from thsi fellow grandfather insurance company then this fellow grandfather would definitely have to pay. If the airline brought the insurance from this stupid grandfather insurance company then his grandfather must pay. Surely my grandfather would not pay if the airline brought the insurance from this oversmart grandfather insurance company.

        What a stupid comment following in the style who called others bodoh but does not know he is one himself. Make sensible comment please. Don`t be like a fool

         
      • And that come with terms and conditions whether its your grandfather, my grandfather or others grandfather.

         
      • Acts of war and terrorism are excluded in the basic insurance policies offered by most airlines. However, a multilateral air travel treaty known as the Montreal Convention of 1999 stipulates that airlines are liable to pay damages of US$175,000 for each passenger killed or injured in any air accident, even if the cause of the crash is an act of war or terrorism.

        http://www.straitstimes.com/news/asia/south-east-asia/story/malaysia-airlines-mh17-crash-basic-insurance-policies-do-not-cover-t

         
      • Wily ; Like I mentioned it come with terms and condition. In this case it is not war as there is no declaration of war. It is internal conflict so the case may be different.

         
    • I was proven right. The wife of DAP MP for Tanjong write in face book using MH17 to politicize and to discredit their opponent BN and govt. What a shame
      http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2014/07/21/mps-wife-should-be-charged-with-sedition/
      And now we know why the opposition PKR, DAP and PAS are politicizing almost every issues even non political issue such as Mh17. They are desperate. Their support have dropped 35% since the last GE.
      http://www.malaysia-today.net/pakatan-support-in-selangor-plunges-to-35-since-ge13-survey-shows/

       
  13. Who the hell this botok filled Rosmah thinks her husband, Najib, is ? You are asking Putin to call Najib, hi, he is the President of Russia and not one of his lackeys in Malaysia. Watch out, Rosmah, every inch of your face is filled with nothing but botok, you look like a ballon that is filled with botok.
    No amount of botok will make you look like an eighteen year old girl, just be yourself and don’t forget you are not talking to one of your Malaysian’s
    lackey.
    Above all, don’t forget your husband is only a minority elected PM of Malaysia even have the audacity to expect the President of Russia to call your husband. May be you can do many things, at will, in Malaysia but now you are talking about is for the world to listen. Your husband can even declare a one year’s mourning in Malaysia but there is nothing your husband can do outside of Malaysia, you hear me ?
    You not only talk and think like a typical repugnant wife of an Umno schmuck you are acting like one yourself, don’t bring shame to yourself !

     
  14. SIA, Korean Airlines, Aseana, Cathay Pacific, Pakistani Airlines, Quantas, British Airways, American Airlines, Emirates, Qatar Air, Lufthansa, Air Lanka, etc are not flying over the corridor which has been declared “safe”. See flight patterns in graphics in link – virtually no flights over Ukraine! Why are the “facts” presented to the unsuspecting Malaysian public different?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/Ukraine/10975524/Crashed-MH17-flight-was-300-miles-off-typical-course.html

    This is a terrible tragedy and if mistakes have been made the relevant parties should own up instead of confusing the issue. It would be much worse if people found out the truth later.

     
    • Shocked; How did you know. Was it your guess or did you get it from CNN news or through PAS, LKS, Anwar and the opposition that got it through CNN news. Dead man speak no words and you are accusing him without substantially it

       
      • Ananars – I don’t watch TV but I read Russian and its in the Russian and Ukranian language news websites. Even CBS and British newspapers have picked up on it.

         
    • The Singapore Straits Times had yesterday referred to flightradar24.com and reported that Singapore Airlines SQ351, a Boeing 777, and Air India A113, a Boeing 787, were within 15 miles (25km) of MH17 when it disappeared and crashed after presumably being shot down.

       
      • Like a stupid fool you keep on listening to American propangana and use the same against the BN when it is a tragedy brought on by a war in Ukraine which the American started. Recal cheap and deceitful.

         
      • Only an ignorant and stupid people not knowing there are more dutch and Australians died. They are more concern and eager for news than Americans. You parrot like bernama and many times found to be deceitful.

         
      • There are more Dutch and Australian that dies and they are more eager for American news. You know what. The Australian (government) like the American are murderers. Remember how they co-operate with the USA and UK in the Weapon of Mass Destruction invasion of Iraq that found no WMD but that destroyed and killed thousand and thousand of civilians. Are you Ignorant or a jerk

         
  15. This one is just sheer bad luck.
    Avoidable ( if measures are taken ) but sheer bad luck.
    Other airlines are using the same flight path as well.
    Only MAS was unlucky.

    Flight operator and transport ministry should know the risk.
    As both of them have their own risk assessment people .
    Insurance companies also issue such alert and risk.
    Cannot totally depends on International aviation org advise.

    Thats the reason as to why people are hiring security guards , installation gates , CCTV , panic button , buying pepper spray and having burglary alarms.
    Because cannot totally depend on the cops.

     
    • Ananars: –
      anytime CNN than Kutusan.
      anytime CNBC/Bloomberg than My-papers.
      Why:-
      Nak tinggal di Heaven & virgins by doing the right things the right way the right time :-p
      Tak nak tinggal di Heaven & virgins doing the wrong things the wrong way the wrong time.

       
  16. Another false flag…..!
    Too many questions and too many lies already.
    I am grateful MAS would charge me too much to change the flight, so I take another airline back home.
    i am on the way….at Moscou airport at the moment for transfer

     
  17. No matter how much we dislike the BN regime and the retards in cabinet, this incident unlike the missing MH flight is totally beyond the govt’s control. I agree we shouldn’t politicise this incident. Otherwise you’re just as bad as that low class scum in Langkawi who mocked Karpal Singh’s death.
    We need to be better human beings than that …
    Focus on having a quiet thought for the poor victims and their families instead. Your children could’ve been one of the 80 kids murdered. Let’s wait and see what happens with investigations before speculating.
    As for the flight path I’m sure they were on an approved air way. If they deviated slightly they’d have informed flight controllers monitoring that sector. All the major airlines fly through Ukraine because its a huge country. But even if they deviated, its unacceptable that they’re shot down for it!

     
    • dear joe,

      politicised or not it is up to you to interprete.

      what I believe is Beng hock and altantiya’s blood are crying out from the ground… their gruesome and untimely deaths are real, and most painful to their respective families, and this pain is lifelong. If you have not lost a dear loved one, you won’t be able to understand…

      one death or 10 deaths they are equally painful and hurting…

      MAS, just a matter of 4 months 2 tragic accidents happened, that sent chills down my spine…

      accidents are beyond our control, yes, but murderings and killings of fellow beings are our willful acts, most evil and will not go unpunished…

      I mourn with the families during these difficult times…

       
    • Wow I am an opportunist but I speak the truth. Look at how you write. Trying to twist and turn a little here and there without a sense of direction. With him there is no peace. Who do you want to mean, Putin, Najib, Obama, President of Ukraine, rebel leaders etc etc etc. We know what you mean. You want to use the death of 239 person to blame and discredit someone but you do not have the guts or b…….. to say it out loud and clear.

       
  18. Was shocked and chilled when i learned the news. My heart goes to the victims’ families…

    What wrong had they done that innocent people have to pay for the sins of the country’s leaders, esp the gruesome and untimely deaths of beng hock and altantuya???

    We can run but we cant hide, our sins will catch up with us just a matter of time…

    The courts may cover you up with your many wickedness, and the evil done in the name of race and religion just to hold on to power but dont forget SOMEONE out there saw every evil committed in the dark.

    Dont play with natural justice… They Malay has a saying, buat jahat jangan sekali buat the nation’s sins are overwhelming…

    My deepest condolences to the family, no words can describe our sadness too.

    Rest in peace!

     
    • Don`t use this to play politics. If you want to play politics go to Gaza and see how the Palestinian have been brutally killed. Or how the US and Bush use deceits such as weapon of mass destruction to kill innocents and destroy Iraq but finally there were found to be no mass weapon of destruction. Podah just hate people using sympathy votes to politicize. If you are really sincere its in your heart not to use it to propangndize. In Beng Hock & Altatunya cases it has not been proven who has done it.

       
      • If beng hock is your brother and altantuya your sis, you surely will not come out with the statement, no proof.

        You are rubbing salt into beng hock and altantuya’s families, how cruel !!!

        Their wounds will never heal and their pain is real. Please have a heart for them. Tq !

         
      • As always you would want to use names and relative to rebut a comment. Its just bankrupt of ideas. Anyway whether he is my relatives or brother, I want the truth and truth must come with evidence. So far there is no shrewd of evidence with the exception of allegation that the PM or UMNO has done it. How much I have been frame throughout my whole life but without evidence I have to accept and live with it because we are living in a civilize world.

        If you are so smart why don`t you go and catch the culprit, or why does not Gobind, the CAT and father do it. They even have a Commission of Inquiry on Beng Hock case and it pointed out that they could not find out who did it although it did not mention suicide or murder. So be smart and go look for the murderer and don`t just talk talk talk without using brain just like your CAT and people that deceived the people during the last election. Remember how they tell the people there ton and ton of bangla desh voting. Is there any truth. Use your brain please and don`t keep calling other bodoh. Look into the mirror yourself first.

        And if I am rubbing salt into the families at least I want the truth but you are worse, you tried to use them to politicize MH17. Don`t you think its even worse. Like I said the devil in disguise.

         
      • The former NST editor Datuk A Kadir Jasin wrote in his blog: “It is hard not to ask, what is happening to us? Why are we experiencing so many bad things and tragedies in rapid succession. I am afraid many of us are becoming numb and are unable to show emotions anymore. Still our hearts and prayers go out to families and loved ones of the passengers and crew of MH17.”

        But many Malaysians are already numbed by the death (killing?) of Teoh Beng Hock and Altantunya years ago.

         
      • Malaysia is in pain & shock.
        Let’s leave politics aside, whether it’s murder or not.
        Don’t have to remember who were murdered years ago. Wounds & pains will never go, but not appropriate to recall at times like this. Leave that till Cheng Beng.

        MH17 is a national tragedy in a short space of time from MH370. A double whammy.
        For many of us, last night was a nightmare.

        Very depressing, isn’t it?

         
      • While Malaysia is in pain & shock,
        SIA took the ‘golden’ opportunity to announce it’s flights are not using Ukraine airspace.
        Since when?
        It smells business ‘kia-su-gua-ia’ @ its worst antics in the cold-blooded global business of ‘su-ia’ while others (thy neighbour) are suffering a setback.
        Not surprising that some Singland wannabes over here have no qualms of behaving quite the same – political opportunists & blame-gamers.

         
      • It was revealed the macc officer was using rakyat’s money in the internet watching blue film. Yet nothing happen to him. How can the givernment allow employees to misuse taxpayer’s money? Further morally, nothing from religious department.

         
      • In war and terrorism, civilians on both sides are victims. See how terrorism started. They put human bombs on buses in isreal. And this spread all over the world. Lunarcy begets lunarcy.Will there be no justice for those Kurdishs and Shias gased by Saddam and chemical Ali and invasion of Kuwait, a small nation and burning of oil fields causing major environmental problems for Years by occupiers?

         
      • Many feel frustrated that the Russian supported rebels might have destroyed the black boxes and other vital evidences, preventing the revelation of “who done it” . We could relate to Teo BH and Atantunya cases, they are karmatic retribution in real time! Never in the history of Malaysia or aviation history that an airline had suffered two major crashes of two wide-body planes within such a short time. The behavior of the rebels are criminal, salvage and immoral beyond measure. We also found similar behavior at home.

         
      • Like I said the opposition and cwf is using the death of 239 person to politicize. Real cheapskate and with heart for their families who are in mourning

         
  19. Najib stops talking big, what can you do ? Send your submarine to fight the Russian, stop talking like you are the big brother when you are just a rich Umno schmucks. You can swear on the Koran when it comes to the death of the mongolian beauty, but there is nothing, nothing you or Malaysia can do about it. This time round don’t expect Australia to help, may be beg the American with guaranteed Malaysia support for TPPA. They might then help !

     
  20. 298 victims now, allegedly some of the people were not supposed to be on this flight – again! BUK works using an electronic “Friend or Foe” challenge system to unidentified aircraft. Did MH17 respond electronically that it was a friendly civilian flight?

     
  21. What a double whammy in just 5 months for MAS.
    Q: Why did MH17 fly over a war zone?
    Was there any instruction / warning to avoid such airspace?

    May the 295 souls rest in peace.

    High time for Malaysia to ponder why many unfortunate events happened in 2014.

     

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