Citizen journalists Jimmy Leow and Lilian Chan have managed to get the Penang Bishop’s views on the controversy over the eviction letters issued to villagers residing on the church’s land at St Francis Xavier’s Church along Penang Road.
Just a few quick observations arising from the Bishop’s comments:
It doesn’t look as if the Church has carried out a proper survey of the affected households to establish the residents’ socio-economic status or needs before they were issued eviction letters. The question is, why the urgency to issue lawyer’s letters and evict the residents before carrying out such a survey of their needs, especially those of the senior citizens? Shouldn’t the process have involved extensive consultations with the affected residents, the setting up of arbitration panels and the soliciting of views from lay Catholics – rather than a top-down approach of resorting to lawyer’s letters?
From the Unesco map (download here), it is clear that the village lies inside the heritage buffer zone – and not outside it. The area doesn’t merely have “heritage connotations”; it lies inside the heritage buffer zone. Hence, Unesco heritage guidelines apply.
Still not clear what exactly the Church intends to do with the land in question and the rationale for “centralising” social services all in one location. What about the needs of the poor elsewhere on the island and on the mainland?
The Bishop has called journalists “irresponsible”. But has the church been clear and transparent from the start? Most Catholics still do not know exactly what the church plans to do in the village area. One senior journalist told me he was hoping the bishop would call a press conference so that interested journalists could ask follow-up questions and receive clarification.
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Eviction controversy: Penang Bishop responds – http://tinyurl.com/p5fdfj
Eviction controversy: Penang Bishop responds: Citizen journalists Jimmy Leow and Lilian Chan have managed to get.. http://tinyurl.com/p5fdfj
greg,
You should use your tools to remonve YOUR nails!
It’s people like you who are a stumbling block to building the “kingdom of God on earth”.
Remember the Lord’s Prayer:
“Our Father in heaven,
Holy be Your name,
Your kingdom come….”
Finally we have come to an understanding. I defend my faith for i believe in it from those inside and also outside it. Despite its lacking in certain areas i feel the same as Walter Burghardt, S.J. Despite having our different opinions hopefully we come to follow what Padre Arrupe says. As we hope and pray the church does not turn into a pharisee like institution lets us also not view it as a bad boy too. Me and those on my side wont have a fit reading that link and all (used to it). Our faith on Catholicism and… Read more »
Actually, I hesitated to post the above, afraid that I’d start another round of vehemence and name-calling and further quotes from the Holy Book invoking fire and brimstone.
It’s strange but pathetic that something somebody writes can unleash such anger from people whose Master said, Love is the greatest commandment.
That’s why I say make what you want of it. Shrug it off as lunacy, fantasy or fiction for all I care, or say, hmmm, that’s interesting… Makes no difference to me. Doesn’t change my world. Make no apologies for the Truth, whatever it is.
Came across this entirely by accident. Conspiracy theorists will have their say on this, and the Gregs and Mr Rufuses will decry it and have another fit. Make what you want of it.
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/io.htm
The Murder of John Paul I
Now you know why it is said it is more dangerous to talk about religion than to enter a roomful of gunpowder with a lighted match! We have more than enough religious pretensions to make many, many wars, but not enough God in our hearts to love one another! Seehon also quoted a Walter Burghardt, S.J., who waxes lyrical about why he loves the church. Very good. Anything that brings a person closer to peace and love for humanity is a candle lit against the darkness. Some other soul might find his peace and love in a solitary life, not… Read more »
Seehon quoted Pedro Arrupe. Allow me to reproduce it below, but with capitals to highlight the essence of what Jerry and Mush and several others have been trying to say. “My call to you today is that you be available to the LORD. Let us put GOD at the CENTRE, ever attentive to HIS VOICE, Ever asking what we can do for his more effective service, And doing it to the best of our ability, with LOVE and PERFECT DETACHMENT. Let us cultivate a VERY PERSONAL AWARENESS of the reality of GOD.” Where, by any stretch of the imagination, can… Read more »
And we ARE NOT TRYING TO START A NEW CHURCH!
Get that drummed into your dumb head.
We don’t hate the church but we hate evil doers disguising themselves as christians.
What we are trying to do is to concientize christians to come back to the true church and teachings of Jesus, John the Baptist and the Apsotles.
We hope that the church today does not turn into another Pharisee like institution that perpetuated the vested interests of the powerful elite during the times of the early church.
My call to you today is that you be available to the Lord. Let us put God at the centre, ever attentive to his voice, Ever asking what we can do for his more effective service, And doing it to the best of our ability, with love and perfect detachment. Let us cultivate a very personal awarness of the reality of God…. by Fr Pedro Arrupe.
I LOVE THIS CHURCH In the course of a half century, I have seen more Christian corruption than you have read of. I have tasted it. I have been reasonably corrupt myself. And yet, I love this Church, this living, pulsing, sinning people of God with a crucifying passion. Why? For all the Christian hate, I experience here a community of love. For all the institutional idiocy, I find here a tradition of reason. For all the individual repressions, I breathe here an air of freedom. For all the fear of sex, I discover here the redemption of my body.… Read more »
If one says he is of a particular religion then follow it devotely and dont selectively follow its teachings and spike the rest and those who teach them. Also select the teachings which only suites one and furthermore some would end up propagating that. This only causes further division. For all the doctirines and beleieves that the church teachers us about Christ and his mission has its basis and it does come from the bible it compiled, of which the explanations given is simply there in its catechism. It also includes traditions, ways of life and accomodates the human nature… Read more »
MUSH you really have something against the church is it. What Greg and Mr Rufus was just correcting your history which is something you wanted to hear. Guess that Assesne hypothesis suited your perception of the church and you have deemed it yourself to be the correct history. As u have mentioned even the pope has ask for forgiveness for the past negativity of the church. No one is deniening it and by reading greg and rufus comments they are not denying it. Greg has mentioned before that he does agree that the church did bod things before and he… Read more »
If Greg had been around in the Middle Ages, he might have been very busy with his pliers! Ha ha! (Only one fingernail…! Still got 9 more!) Mush, you’re hilarious!
“Controlled torture”! Ha ha! Funny, though it wouldn’t have been much fun to the recipients!
Sounds like George Bush’s Guantanamo. I wonder if those guys in the Middle Ages have come back (reincarnated) as the neo-cons. Bush was a Pope then, and Cheney and the others did the other work.
This talk about about councils and what-nots reminds me of UMNO and Hindraf. How can mere conferences of humans presume to decide on matters of God and Heaven!?
Thank you, Mush, for the illuminating pieces. They were touched with humour and compassion.
“The punishments that the church imposed were nowhere compared to the rest of Europe. Even torture current in those days was used by the church in ways that had controls… But the rest of Europe and the Protestant world not to mention the Islamic world were far superior to the church when it came to persecutions and torture of dissenters.” from Mr Rufus ‘We only pulled out one fingernail; he’s still got 9 left. And we didn’t touch his toes…’ is that it? A spokesman for the Master [who taught us to love our enemies] saying the church only performed… Read more »
To – Christians against Zionism At least MUSH took the trouble to korek dunno where her ‘facts’ could you also tell us your resources about what u have mentioned : (A lot of what he says are simply lies designed by the Roman Emperor Constantine to perpetuate the vested interests of The Roman Empire.) Can u explain which of it are lies and what is your basis. Perhaps you can shed the light on the truth. At least Mr Rufus has explained and given facts. If you cant don’t be an insulting pest. (While the early church of Jesus, John… Read more »
And, I daresay, if it hadn’t been for Councils, the recognition that life precedes birth might still be a Christian belief. Look at the newest quantified research into reincarnation! Many thousands of cases, hundreds, perhaps thousands of studies. You can refuse to look truth in the eye, you can cower and say this is the work of the devil, or you can say, isn’t life grand and wondrous? Isn’t it marvelous that the very ancient texts are being verified and borne out by researchers today?
I should thank Mr Rufus for correcting my history lesson on papal infallibility. No, Greg, I did not glean these off at MPH or wherever. It’s been more than thirty years… memory slips. Ok, Council of Constantinople, First Vatican Council… my point was precisely that: COUNCIL. Countless council after council after council thru the centuries. You don’t need grand meetings of humans to sit, deliberate, make tomes and tenets. Humans bring to the table their frailties and their own agendas, good or not so good. Doesn’t then make the church one huge created entity, liable to misconstruction because things were… Read more »
Mr Rufus and Greg give the standard, studied answers in defense of the establishment, prisoners of dogma, unwilling or afraid for the chinks of light coming thru their dungeon walls that might wash away the familiar comfort of their beliefs. The normal Christian view is that Eternity starts from when you were born, and then goes on and on, Forever. The early Christians believed that Eternity stretches both ways, from before you were born, till beyond the grave, that the soul is pre-existent. From “After Life, What?”, by Robert Pinansky: “Rebirth was believed by many early Christians. Origen taught it.… Read more »
As for reincarnation,
That is exactly what Jesus was referring to when he told Nicodemus in the Gospels that “you must be born again”.
Moreover, in the Gospel of Thomas, (one of the gospels that was expunged by the Emperor Constantine),
Jesus said, “So through many lives will ye be made perfect”.
Greg, it looks like you have a lot to learn about Christianity!
A fundamental difference between your church of the Emperor Constantine and the early church of Jesus and the Apostles was their methods of evangelization.
While the early church of Jesus, John the Baptist and the Apostles evangelized by healing the sick, your Roman church forcibly conquered peace loving people through bloody wars.
Can we accept this version of Christianity by this anonymous “Mr.Rufus” as the Gospel truth? Obviously not.
A lot of what he says are simply lies designed by the Roman Emperor Constantine to perpetuate the vested interests of The Roman Empire.
greg,
I notice your one track mind will go to great lengths to perpetuate the vested interests of the Roman Emperor and the Roman Empire.
A true Christian will only serve the interests of Jesus Christ i.e. the values and principles of truth, justice and righteousness.