Anwar and Shabery shake hands at the end of the debate. So what do you think? Who was the more convincing? Respond to the poll on the sidebar.
2151: Why don’t you give your ideas without talk of changing government, Dato Seri?
Anwar: If they accept our suggestion, we will support them. In Feb 2006, after an earlier price hike, there was 4.8 per cent inflation. Now, after the price hike, inflation has soared to nearly 8 per cent in a month. Venezuela and Iran may have low oil price and high inflation, but we now have high oil price and high inflation! Look at the countries around us – how we have lost out to them in competitiveness. I still believe Malaysia, with its resources, has the potential if it cleans up its act.
Shabery: Mahathir has been blamed for the IPPs, but Anwar was once singing the praises of Mahathir. He should have resigned back then. Why is he only talking about a 50-sen reduction now when the oil price was RM1.92 before the election and he promised to reduce it then? We will only burden the country with high subsidies and could end up in debt to international “money lenders”.
Petronas alone (not the group) gives 91 per cent of its profit to the government. What else is there to give? Petronas is strong because of the government of Umno and BN. We do not burden Petronas but allow it to reinvest. About this talk of abuse of power – we are not alone in raising prices; it’s a global problem.
Anwar: Among oil producers, our price is high. If we want our economy to be strong, if we continue in this direction, our economy will be severely undermined. That’s why I am committed to explaining to the people. I will not respond to Shabery’s personal attacks. I don’t have space on RTM after this. I give you my assurance that i will contest in a by-election in the shortest time.
Shabery: Anwar hasn’t changed much. Those who built Petronas – Razak, Mahathir, Abdullah – Anwar has opposed them. If we continue to ask more money from Petronas to subsidise the country, we could end up poorer and Petronas could end up being taken over. Our GDP growth is 6 per cent, much better than many others. The debate now shows how open the government has become.
2140: In a few years we might not have enough oil. What do we do then? Should we continue the subsidy, or are you going to have a sharp price rise then?
Anwar: Who gave the figure of oil depletion in a few years? That assumes there are no further oil discoveries. Some 30 years ago, our reserves were supposed to last until 2005. Petronas then went abroad to explore. I defend Petronas but I criticise the BN.
The mismanagement of the government, the leakages… It’s true, the IPPs were during my time, but look at the record. Ani Arope was opposed to the EPU and the Prime Minister’s Dept over the IPPs. That’s why he quit.
The IPPs have made billions but those on the losing side are Petronas and TNB. We could plug the leakages and cronyism and save a total of RM3 billion. Who’s idea is this of a sharp oil price rise? This is a IMF-World Bank prescription! It is slanderous to say that I bowed to IMF wishes back in 1997-98.
Petronas said there was a special dividend for the government of RM6 billion this year. Can’t we take RM1 billion of this to reduce the oil price? It is not an issue of Pakatan Rakyat. It is for the people. We are staring at economic recession and unemployment.
2132: Why do you focus on the price of oil and not talk about income tax or reducing inflation?
Shabery: We are not a major oil producer. We are just a minor producer. We are just a small net exporter. Only 26 per cent of Petronas profit is from domestic sources. Petronas has to use its profits to find oil abroad. We now have a world renown oil corporation. Don’t make Petronas too poor.
Anwar: Shabery, who compared Malaysia to Venezuela and Iran? We should look at Malaysia as an oil exporter. The sharp rise has caused economic deterioration. Why did the government break its pre-election promise not to raise oil prices? Who is saying anything about taking Petronas money? My argument is to look at the IPPs and wipe out corruption. Why don’t we manage our treasury better to ease the suffering of the people?
Shabery: This is a populist argument. We can accept it if our oil is isolated from the world or if our oil is the only one that is expensive in the world. The IPPs existed when Anwar was in government, and he defended their contracts back then. Anwar used the methods that the IMF favoured to try and resolve the 1997-98 crisis. It is easy to talk when you are outside. Even with their difficulties now, believe me, the people have enough to eat. Show me a country which gives cheap oil without high inflation.
2128: When you were Finance Minister you sent up a Tabung Warisan. What was the aim?
Anwar: The idea was to keep part of our earnings for the future, but that was not maintained. The sharp price now has led to spiralling inflation. It will have adverse effects. But each rise of US$1 in the price of oil actually results in RM360 million income for us. Right now, the sharp rise in inflation will lead to a deterioration in the economy.
2125: In 2006, when there was a price hike, the government said it would improve public transport. Now they are saying that they are going to use the substantial savings for the benefit of the people. Can we believe that?
Shabery: All the countries that have cheap oil – look at Venezuela and Iran, look at their high inflation rates. We can now overcome our food price crisis. Our rice is cheaper than Thailand. We don’t have to demonstrate on the road or hold indecent concerts.
2120: Your premise of a 50 sen reduction is because Malaysia is an oil producer. But your points about IPP had nothing to do with oil. Are you going to distribute what has been collected through the hard work of others so that you get a good name?
Anwar: IPPs are also involved with oil and gas. Petronas has made a huge profit; its profit ranks it among the top 10 oil companies. We will definitely ask Petronas to reinvest. But Petronas is the right of the people. Are we just going to look after the tycoons and the cronies or the people? The 50 sen reduction is just the first step. The extreme price hike has won no support. The only ones supporting it are the BN MPs..
2111: Would the government have to subsidise foreign oil companies in retail sales if there is a price subsidy as Petronas alone does not control the retail market?
Shabery: If subsidies are given out, it would benefit the rich and foreigners as well. Why don’t we give the money straight to the people who need it? Finland and Norway etc do not have subsidies and have shown good economic performance.
Anwar: If you want to compare with Norway, it has 10 times the per capita income of Malaysia. The petrol price is hurting the poor and marginalised groups and aggravating their suffering. It is our responsibility. Such a sharp rise is burdening the people. If Umno and the ruling coalition don’t realise this, then their future is bleak. What about infrastructure spending – isn’t that a form of subsidy for companies? But we call that “incentives”. On the other hand, aid for the people is called “subsidies”, which are given a negative connotation.
2107: Shabery responds that the government would have to incur a subsidy of RM50 billion if it maintained the price at RM1.92 and that would affect development. He said that global factors also influence the oil price. He recalled the first global crisis in 1973-74, which worsened inflation including in Malaysia. Petronas was formed back then, which wasn’t easy. The people supported Razak’s move. Anwar protested against Razak back then. And Anwar was now doing this again.
2102: Anwar kicks off with his opening statement. He insists that with proper economic management and eradication of corruption, an immediate cut in petrol price of 50 sen is possible. He speaks of the suffering felt by many, particularly the Malays and bumis in Sabah. He points out that TNB has to pay for 40 per cent excess capacity and how Petronas has made an excellent profit of RM100 billion – which could enable the government to raise RM3 billion for distribution to the people through a price reduction.
2100: The one-hour live debate gets underway at Balai Budaya. The moderator warns against raising irrelevant issues. Both speakers receive decent applause.
Share your comments on the debate over TV9, Astro Awani and Bernama TV from 9.00pm. This live write up is specially for those of you who don’t have access to these three stations and those abroad who would like to follow the debate. Please note this is not a verbatim transcript; it just covers the main points raised or emphasised and paraphrases much of what was said.
Serajudin, when you say that Shabery was well prepared and Anwar was not, I think that you are not using your brains when watching the debate. What I see is that Shabery was well prepared to personally attack Anwar.
Citizenken, your prediction is correct. I watched the TV3 niteline after the debate and your prediction was absolutely correct.
Syabas to Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim, our Prime Minister in waiting. InsyaAlah. LONG LIVE ANWAR!
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well, Anwar is out of the topics. the topics is all about what he promise during the elections. just refer to Shabery wion the debates la…bro…. Anwar has got another debates tomorrow at the Police HQ Kl.
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This his my 2nd chance to see the calm and eloquent Datuk Seri Anwar(1st being his PKR Ceramah in Muar, Johor) deliver his facts and finally this time, he’s gotten the chance to voice out what he had wanted to deliver all along on national TV.
DS Anwar’s points for debate was plain, straighforward and simple. To raise the facts that the people are suffering, the govt. ain’t doing much, and the detrimental outcome of the nation’s economic state that will eventually escalate to bigger issues and problems in the coming months should the petrol price hike situation not be resolved. When petroleum prices skyrocket, everything else (manufacturing, transport, F&B, etc.) follows suit. Its a domino effect.
Shabery could not provide a strong re-buttal to DS Anwar’s facts as they are prevalent in our everyday lives. Those who are seated comfortably at the top would not feel much of the pinch that the rest of us do, especially those families and individuals who have a tight planned budget without much room for adjustment in their expenditure. When a fuel price hike like this throws a monkey wrench in everyone’s financial budget, obviously something has to be done and fast!
DS Anwar’s point of re-allocating and reducing certain payouts/ dividends/ revenue to lower the petrol price is very very sensible. He had mentioned this in his ceramah in Muar and he also did mention at that time that he had foreseen that the BN govt. would schedule for a price increase after the General Elections. True enough.
The debate was scheduled for 1 1/2 hours (based on the program time slot), which was cut short after almost an hour and i think the final segment was cancelled. They had to do it. Another 1/2 hour and DS Anwar would have caused severe embarassment, damage and destruction to the BN rep. Of course, the TV network may euphemistically coin it as, “running out of time” or something similar to that.
Anyhow, this debate had a clear winner, and beyond a shadow of a doubt it is Datuk Seri Anwar!
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The real winner ofcoz is Rakyat !! Malaysia need this kind of open debate !! Amazing to watch !!
however, DSAI got what he wants on mains stream media and done it very well and sounds like gentleman indeed.
As Shabery now become Shabiri , He had succeeded followed planted “personal attack” script from Umno ON DSAI !! You think
percayalah !! … percayalah !! …. and people will percaya you
Let me tell you i the first will not percaya until you show the facts …. What a joke …. you are running out of idea to defence.
SO, the winner of personal attack goes to …..indeed and as expected Mr Shabiri … bravo brader.
Cheer mate
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[...] LIVE: Anwar vs Shabery in the Great Oil Price Debate [...]
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he(DSAI)is the champion my friend..n he”ll keepon fighting wit BN(lawan tetap lawan)he”s our champion,he”s rakyat champion,in no time you”ll see it,he will surely make it(PM)defeating BN….sang by:Shabery mercury
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Shabery should have done better. There were a lot of points that Anwar raised which could be easily answered.
As a nation, our oil reserve don’t even put us in the top 15. However, Petronas, with its investment in overseas, is ranked in the top 15 oil producer in the world, bigger than Shell or Conoco. Petronas has develop itself to be a global player and use its investment prudently to take it to such a position. If we were to compare correctly, we just have to look across the sea to our neighbour Indonesia. They had a bigger oil reserve than Malaysia, but alas Pertamina is nowhere near Petronas, and Indonesia has ended up as an oil exporter. Anwar is taking a gamble on the fact that discovery of more oil field can lengthen the position of Malaysia as a net exporter. Is it prudent to change Petronas reinvestment policy at this point of time? It is a gamble, which would lead to short term benefit to rakyat (certain) but at a cost for the future.
I don’t understand Anwar’s calculation on RM3 billion as compared to the RM5 billion rebate that the government is giving. Based on the math, that translate to 200 liters per vehicle (msia has about 7.5m cars), which suggest he would have to plough more from the IPPs.
Shabery should also highlight per capita income is very misleading -we should look at purchasing power instead and if I’m not mistaken Msia is ranked 30+ while Norway is 40+. It might have 10 times capita income, but it’s also 10x more expensive to live there.
The second part is Shabery should have challenged Anwar on redistribution of Petronas wealth. The idea of having a ‘subsidised’ price provide false economy to the public, and in now way curb excess usage. It is far better to redirect the fund directly to the poor. (I am not saying that the govt does this well -in fact its poor at it, but this is a better method than subsidising price). This should also involves infrastucture spend on public transportation. It is also good fiscal policy to spend more money during recessionary periods to boost the economy (Keynes), not to mention the economic multiplier that it creates.
It is true that oil prices creates inflationary pressure, but we have been artificially insulated all these while prices are going up. This had led to many imprudent spending patterns (just look at the number of single occupancy vehicles whilst usage of public transport is very minimal – for info companies like Rapid KL has huge fleet, but utilisation is far from breaking even), including over-gearing (credit card debt, etc).
One valid point from Anwar is on the excess power that TNB has to take on from Gen Zero IPPs, which are at the same time sold fuel at a discounted rate. However, this involve changing contracts that were made, which would change debt ratings, and put serious issue on msian contract stability (and our foreign investment). But at the same time, Anwar should have lambasted the govt on how it distribute contracts, whether we are getting our money worth for all the savings and petronas dividend we receive. That I think Shabery can’t asnwer!.
My point on the whole thing is whilst Anwar is a good speaker, Shabery came nowhere near in challenging any of his points. I thought he would have come well equipped, since most of the points Anwar raised have been mentioned again and again before and could easily been strike off.
I am not pro government – but am strongly for facts and truth!
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firstly.. Shabery… pls try & wipe the foam from your mouth next time u do public speaking,k?…
Ok… the minister had 2 things going 4 him..
1) he had d b*** to be there
2) he hit on the only good point of the nite from him – why only 50sens when DSAI promised to reduce fuel price from RM1.92.
However, DSAI answered (2) quite astutely.. & defused the point.
Overall… from a pure debate point of view, it was a clear DSAI won…. professionalism, well thought answers, charming personality… his opponent had to resort to personal attacks to get applause.
So DSAI 1, Shabery 0… PR 1, BN 0…Rakyat 1, Gomen 0
last point… that Nordin Kardi fella was obviously a back-up speaker for Shabery… it was more like a statement than a question!!
DSAI, rightfully & good naturedly chidded him too!
hmm… ok… DSAI 2, BN 0!!
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[...] Anil Netto’s minute-by-minute summary [...]
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The crux of the matter, Reduce or wipe out corruption = Savings for the country which could even be use to ease the burden of the rakyat.
How could BN defend against that? lolx
still, it’s a great eye-opener to us, eventhough it might not be to the ruling regime because of its denial syndrome.
And for those who only goes for ‘character assasination’, you know when you’re lost.
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The debate is history. Anwar and the truth won. The important thing to do now is to protect him from being unfairly jailed again because of the spurious sodomy charge.
It is the conspirators that is doing all the sodomizing…these wretched and evil people are Hell-bent on destroying Anwar by hook or crook and every justice-minded Malaysian should come to Anwar’s aid.
They must voice out their disgust and take to the streets non-violently and let their angst be felt by those who have no respect for the rakyat and the rule of law.
Shame on AAB and his police state. Shame on the police who act like slavish eunuchs of the emperor in (allegedly) carrying out the diry work of those (alleged) conspirators.
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this monday, during the umno=get=together assembly, shabery will be given public caning by his boss for his dismal performance. yes, he deserves it.
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We can see the different between Anwar & BN Leader. (We should not call them leader).
Anwar- Find the way when there are crisis.
BN Leader – accept the crisis and don’t know how to fight with it. just like, if you got nothing to eat, just stay there and die.
Hey. Mis-information Minister, the today topic is about petrol not history or Anwar… Anwar have teach this Mis-information minister about when the world petrol price increase, The exporter will gain more, but this stupid minister keep talking the increase is due to world price. Anwar have give him the position of petronas – top 10 in terms of capital. this stupid minister still not understand and said that petronas is a very small petro company..??? Not understand why our Info Minister always “Mis-information”????
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The meeting of two different minds on a single platform :
one a debate on fuel hike and the other an election campaign on personal character of his opponent.
After all, it is called a debate.
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I hate the personel attack by Shabery.
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anil,
Praise for you.
The best ever hits in your blogs like life telecast.
Now – whats your opinion?
Please summerise it in your accountant brain – is Anwar capable or not in economic points that if he came to power – the petrol price can be reduce or not?
Rajraman.Asking the right man in economic view point.
STILL HATE ANWAR ALTOU I SUPPORT HIM.
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Hats off to Sabery Cheek for doing the BN undoable. You have what the world call – guts. But the eating garbarge in Fear Factor also needs guts.
Nevertheless Sabery and his alikes rubber stamped and sealed the true reflection of a stereo-type governance of the government of the day. Dwell on a topic by hitting below the below of the Rakyat’s belt!
Anwar’s vision of an agony reduction war on the population is embraced by Sabery’s personal attacks.
What relevance has the Baling demonstration of 1974 bring upon the RM2.70 per litre of petrol?
What happened to the RM4.3 Million coffered from the 2006 price rocketting? Sabery’s answer – Anwar hates Tun Razak; Anwar loves IMF?
Bottomline….Sabery has successfully given the Rakyat the “What to do next” menu on a Silver Platter. Terima kasih and Malaysia Boleh
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Yeah Shaberry seems to go astray all the time… Anwar also have some astray moment especially went being attack on personel ground..
overall it is a “good” debate…
Anyway, it is just something political… Will the oil price come down ?? I dont think so… Will Anwar become a PM… I also doubt it..
Only if the Government could listen and follow Anwar suggestions….
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As malaysian,we sat in front of TV aiming to know what the government can do in the future, not to hear what Shabery was dwelling in the past history and the present lies of Badawi government.
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I can only sum up the debate with this simple remark – the teacher VS the student. The teacher who is AI and the student who is SC. As the teacher preaches on current events and solutions to resolve it whereas the student prefers to dwell on past decisions which may have been appropraite at that time. We are not interested in what happen years ago and the decision at that time, what we want to know is solutions to current events that is making it very hard for ordinary citizens like us to make ends meet.
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Kudos to Shabery in taking up the challenge to face DSAI. You made history brother. I bet you no other minister in BN will dare face up to DSAI in a fiery debate. Yes….Shabery did tripped over a few question but he also responded with confidence on some of the queries. Shabery will be a good addition to Pakatan. Well done!! As for DSAI, I rather give you 2 years as PM to reform the country than to give 2 years to Badawi/Najib today.
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Shabery showed his ineptitude with his below-the-belt punches. When in doubt, when stuck without a good response, try throwing some mud. Cheap tricks.
And Anwar shone when he turned-his-other-cheek and instead of responding in kind, got down to the business of using the very few minutes allocated to expound his points. With valid facts and figures.
I am not a fan of Anwar, and it is true he does have a lot ot answer for regarding his time as DPM and Finance Minister.
But in these challenging times, I think Anwar – if he holds true to his promises – can use that deep insight from those days in power to turn this country round.
With steps and measures far removed from the flip-flops and fire-fighting fiascoes we have witnessed recently.
Massive mistakes which caused so very many of the rakyat untold grief and suffering, followed by ineffective U-turns and kostans compounded by hollow excuses.
Locally and globally, these are desparate times. Even the well managed economies with hugh reserves have to be on their toes.
Malaysia needs capable and honest leaders and ministers. The nation needs steady hands which to me are sorely lacking amongst those in power currently.
(It bears mentioning at this point that past leaders with highly questionable track records should do well to stop sniping with blatantly hypocritical darts too. Rubbing salt into our painful wounds with lies and deceit.)
I have no confidence in Abdullah Badawi and his Cabinet. I do not think that Malaysia can count on this captain and his crew. I want a change. NOW!
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The debate was totally one side and DSAI was the clear winner.
The basics are very simple, the current BN government has no clue on managing under crisis.
All the points raise were not answered at all by Shabery, especially the part of where the money supposedly saved by the oil subsidy is utilized by the BN government for the rakyat in terms of transportation projects.
The plain point of gradual increase of the petrol price rather than the abrupt increase by 40% is also not gasped by the BN government.
Managing under crisis would basically mean lining up a series of benefits and programs before increasing the oil price but this was NOT done. Now we can see various programs trying to be initiated as an after thought, this clearly shows mismanagement and personal interest at play.
If the BN government is willing to listen to constructive criticism, we should see the price of oil reduced by RM0.50 and measures being implemented in a transparent manner to show the rakyat details and cost reduction and savings of wasteful mega project.
For a better Malaysia
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Shaberry was not answering the questions, he was just repeating what he must have memorised the previous night.
Anwar on the other hand answered most questions very well, he even gave a very good answer for the question Shaberry himself asked: “What do you do when there is no more oil in malysia after 2015″. Check out Anwar’s answer in You Tube.
Score is : Pakatan 1 : Barisan 0
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One hour debate on air was not fully utilised..too much on personal attack and this not happenned once but this personal attack on DSAI was repeated again and again. Very unprofessional.
Anyway opportunity for ‘rakyat’ to judge their leader. Hoping to see a more ‘clean’ debate in future.
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