Just Wi-fi sent in this comment, outlining concerns about the free wi-fi project in Penang – this time largely unrelated to health risks – which give us some food for thought:
I work as an engineer with a tech company; installing wi-fi networks is part of my job. To be honest, most of us do discuss how the devices are affecting us. Some of us feel dizziness and some us experience headaches, especially in areas near signal-boosted wi-fi antennas (amplifiers). But again, these powerful devices are to transmit data within building to building and should be ‘away’ from offices, residential areas.
What concerns me is that the installation plan and study have been carried out. There are many challenges for this project.
A well-covered wi-fi zone needs more than one Access Point (AP) and careful planning. Normally, network engineers need to get a detailed analysis and studies over the area: how many estimated users per AP for now and in the future. Poor wi-fi designs will cause users to experience slow or intermittent connection (due to overloaded APs). Have they done the evaluation? What is the maintenance contract between the State and provider like?
Unless the backbone is using cable. Throughput (actual speed) of point to point/multi point is not very high and stable (due to interference from trees, buildings and even human bodies). If using wi-fi/Wimax as backbone… which buildings/location are they gonna mount the antennas? How many outdoor nodes? How many antenna towers will they build near residential buildings? Will you allow them to mount powerful wi-fi dishes on your rooftop?
What about security? Wi-fi’s security is no way compatible to cable. Remember, this is an open network; anyone can sniff your data packet. Does the company have social responsibility over public security? Can we sue the service provider for not taking enough security precautions? Are they willing to upgrade all their infrastructure if new vulnerabilities are found to hack wi-fi and Wimax? (Read further on old technology WEP. Any script kiddy can hack your WEP-key router in less than 20mins (search youtube). This is an old encryption method, but scan around the wi-fi signals now: I would say more than 90 per cent around Penang are still using WEP.)
Every technology has its good and bad; it’s just how we implement it. For this project, I strongly feel uncomfortable because everything is merely announcements, press statements.
Where is CAT value for the project?
Any company other than P1 tendering for this project?
Lastly, we need a place – both virtual (internet) and physical (office) – where we can obtain information on future mega projects.
These sound like fair questions and concerns, which should be addressed.
I would just like to add that private companies are not in the business of doing charity work. Their over-riding objective is profit maximisation. So what are the business models for these companies? If the wi-fi service is free, how does the company hope to raise revenue (and profit) to recover its RM10 or RM20 million investment cost? One of the ways is probably through advertisements on the wi-fi access website. Is that the only source of revenue? More details are needed. Let’s be completely transparent about the whole thing in line with CAT.
I find all this widespread concern on the issues of having a municipal wifi quite amusing, it’s not like this is the first time a city is working on blanketing it’s citizens with wifi.
Read up on some of the places that has had successful installations (this is on the initiative of the local council, there is no national plan or recommendations by the government):
U.S.: Over 116 citywide installations in operation with 86 more planned – http://www.wired.com/special_multimedia/2008/st_atlas_1603
Wikipedia entry “Municipal wireless network” – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipal_wireless_network
Howstuffworks entry “Municipal wireless network: Wireless network applications and Public Safety” – http://computer.howstuffworks.com/municipal-wifi2.htm
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Hi,
I am also worried when this issue is brought up. I would like to see the whole of Penang wired, but not at the expense of public health.
Based on some articles that I have read, it would seem that there is some concern, but no concrete proof that Wi-fi signals could actually be detrimental to our health. I don’t think Penang or CAP has the means to determine this for a fact.
I would find it instructive that the scientists have not been able to discern concrete proof that hand-phone signals cause harm after all these years.
CAP should have moderated their approach in airing their concern; it seemed to be fear-mongering of the worst kind to me. And yes, I agree that LGE’s reaction could have been more diplomatic.
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Wow, looks like this is not just about free wireless and save me my RM100 streamyx bill la!!!
I think it is also about the state government giving away a whole bunch of LICENCES (not very different from Rafidah’s APs come to think of it) to put up an infrastructure which is going to bring us untold health misery.
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The whole world can be striken by cancer and there will still be no scientific evidences simply because no government, corporation or agency will sponsor such research.
The only scientific research you will find are those sponsored by the companies concerned and of course you will find results are in their favour.
So people who ask for scientific evidences are arssh… who don’t look around and trust their own eyes and ears. How many cancer patients do you know of? Go WIFI and I guarantee you more.
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“The whole world can be striken by cancer and there will still be no scientific evidences simply because no government, corporation or agency will sponsor such research.”
Brilliant!
…or I could say now the world is NOT stricken by cancer. Full stop. The only scientific… wait a minute, there is no scientific research!
Go Wi-fi and you guarantee more cancer patients? How do you know it is from Wi-fi use or caused by sources? Usually when I encounter the word guarantee, I would respond with a query “manufaturer’s or retailer’s” ?
Wait a minute !
Why am I responding to an arssh… posting full of assertions in lieu of arguments????
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why nobody is addressing on air pollution issues in the country which is causing more obvious significant harm?
i see this as another political ploy to spoil the newly elected state government.
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Don’t make thing difficult. Is someone hiding behind this public health issue? Any hidden agenda? I am getting curious now on the sincerity and honesty of this hype!!!
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I came across a news (but I forgot where I had read it), where Germany’s government recommended that it’s citizen stayed away from WiFi and others alike wave generating devices and area. It’s the opposite of British government push on WiFi installation.
Can someone confirm this news?
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Could someone detail out how the risks will translate into some physical effects on health, body! I’m concerned. There are plenty of risks around and they abound, we manage to live by them by selection.
But we need to know. Thanks.
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Come to think about it, it may be due to threat poised to TM and other broadband providers which directly link to BN cronies. Think about it, all major cities in the world has this facility by default.
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To tell you the truth every electrical appliances that generates wave or electrical signal will have some impact towards your health. Think about your mobile, the ultimate oven cooker, Astro, TV, etc. These things generate electrical signal which would interfece our normal living frequency but yet we all are exposed to them.
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Re: health effects of wifi:
I have had wifi in my house for the past 4-5 years, and don’t feel any effect. Me and millions of other users around the world. The fact is that Wifi transmitters transmit less power than your mobile phones, yet everyone in Penang seems to be using mobile phones… why the fearmongering on Wifi?
Off the top of my head, there are many many other things that I can die off in Penang:
1. Getting hit by a car
2. Getting mugged
3. Bus crash
etc.
On security:
This is obviously not a secure network, and should be treated like the Wifi in Coffee Bean, Starbucks, etc. It will be bandwidth capped, traffic shaped to avoid torrents, etc. And people who are expecting that they don’t have to subscribe to Streamyx with the free Wifi are probably kidding themselves… the bandwidth will probably be slower and capped/monitored.
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I tell you a real fact ok. Back in 1984 we realised WIFI/high radiation towers were dangerous when some of my close friends working with very high radiation transformers/microwave towers etc started getting sick. One person died caused by ‘accident’ and the second person very very close to me died of luekemia. Both of them were healthy young men. In fact even as far back as the 1970s we knew microwave technology was a ticking timebomb.
My advise is very very clear. In terms of safety, cable technology is still much safer. our human body can only take so much microwave showers in a day. This so called new microwave technology is crap! My advise is don’t play with technology when the evidence against it is so strong! Have you ever seen a bird near a microwave tower? Even birds are smarter then us humans.
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I don’t much about ill effects of Wi Fi and stuff like that, but it looks like others like me who are ignorant are talking like they know a lot including CAP. Do your research, come out with facts and figures rather than create unnecessary fear. For those like me go and read the three well documented letters on the in Malaysiakini today.
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>>I tell you a real fact ok. Back in 1984 we realised WIFI/high radiation towers were dangerous when some of my close friends working with very high radiation transformers/microwave towers etc started getting sick. One person died caused by ‘accident’ and the second person very very close to me died of luekemia. Both of them were healthy young men. In fact even as far back as the 1970s we knew microwave technology was a ticking timebomb.<>My advise is very very clear. In terms of safety, cable technology is still much safer. our human body can only take so much microwave showers in a day. This so called new microwave technology is crap! My advise is don’t play with technology when the evidence against it is so strong! Have you ever seen a bird near a microwave tower? Even birds are smarter then us humans.<<
Cable is expensive. That’s why wi-fi came about in the first place. We can’t even replace our copper cables.
What evidence against wi-fi was that again? If we’re talking about standing close to radiation hazards, hell we have those signs in X-ray rooms and aircraft radar installations. And thay have been with us for so long! What is needed is just common sense to keep away a safe distance from the source.
And where were these guys when telcos began putting up HP towers?
What these fear mongers have in common is long on “examples” that do not stand up to scrutiny and short on facts. Their selectiveness in handling microwave issue betray intellectual dishonesty or sheer ignorance – this doesn’t help at all.
And I’ll tell you even after this they will not be a shred of convinving evidence they can put up to suggest otherwise. And we’re still waiting. When Atlas One was supposed to wire up Klang Valley in the early 2000s where were these guys?
Public concern or selective fear mongering? You be the judge!
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Ppls are not against hi-tech,but are cautious considering the future of all.
Pls look thru why ppls are concern:
A.Paris’Hygiene and Security Commitee has advised to turn off Wi-Fi access in the capital’s public libraries.
http://www.wifiduck.com/2007/12/06/french-library-clerks-say-wi-fi-is-dangerous/
B.The Austrian Medical Association is pressing for a ban on wi-fi in schools.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1549944/Warning-on-wi-fi-health-risk-to-children.html
C.Dr Gerd Oberfeld, Salzburg’s head of environmental health and medicine, has described wi-fi as “dangerous” to sensitive people.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1549944/Warning-on-wi-fi-health-risk-to-children.html
D.Europe’s top environmental watchdog(2007) is calling for immediate action to reduce exposure to radiation from Wi-Fi, mobile phones and their masts. It suggests that delay could lead to a health crisis similar to those caused by asbestos, smoking and lead in petrol.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10463870
E.Germany Warns Citizens to Avoid Using Wi-Fi(2007)
The Environment Ministry recommended that people should keep their exposure to radiation from Wi-Fi “as low as possible” by choosing “conventional wired connections”. It added that it is “actively informing people about possibilities for reducing personal exposure”.
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/germany-warns-citizens-to-avoid-using-wifi-401845.html
F.Professor Dennis Henshaw, professor of human radiation at Bristol University has called for an inquiry into the dangers of Wi-Fi wireless internet technology. (30 April 2007.)
http://www.lifedesignstrategies.com/art/electronic_smog.pdf
G.Adam Price MP said Wales should follow the lead of Canada, where schools no longer used microwave signals to link computer terminals and laptops. One school in his Carmarthenshire constituency, Ysgol Pantycelyn, Llandovery, has removed the technology because of parental concern and the county is currently considering whether to allow Wi-Fi in its schools at all.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/tm_headline=mp-urges-ban-on-wi-fi-technolgy-in-schools&method=full&objectid=18128563&siteid=50082-name_page.html
H.An Associate Professor at the Department of Neuroscience at the Karolinska Institute in Stockholm has sent an advisory letter to Swedish school governors (supplied). Dr Olle Johansson, of the Karolinska Institute in Sweden, has carried out experiments on radiation similar to or lower than wi-fi and found biological implications. Asked if the commission was right to set limits based on thermal effect, he said: “That’s just rubbish. You cannot put emphasis on such guidelines.”
I.In Mid-term Review Of The European Environment And Health Action Plan 2004-2010 – European Parliament stated:
MEPs are concerned about the lack of specific legal provisions to ensure the safety of consumer products containing nanoparticles being put on the market. They are greatly concerned at the Bio-Initiative international report on electromagnetic fields, which highlights the health risks posed by emissions from mobile-telephony devices such as mobile telephones, UMTS, Wifi, Wimax and Bluetooth, and also DECT landline telephones. It notes that the limits on exposure to electromagnetic fields which have been set for the general public are obsolete. They do not take account of developments in information and communication technologies or vulnerable groups, such as pregnant women, newborn babies and children.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/expert/infopress_page/064-36137-245-09-36-911-20080903IPR36136-01-09-2008-2008-false/default_sv.htm
J.The powerful overview and scrutiny committee (OSC) of Haringey council in London resolved this month that there should be “a precautionary approach” to Wi-Fi because of concerns about risks to the health of children and teachers.
With cross-party agreement, it recommended that no new Wi-Fi systems be installed and that existing ones should be discontinued pending “full consultation with parents and staff”.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/wifi-backlash-councils-urge-caution-on-networks-in-schools-457340.html
K.Sir William Stewart, the chairman of the Health Protection Agency, told colleagues that he would like to see monitoring of children exposed to wireless technology in schools.The chairman of Britain’s Health Protection Agency, Sir William Stewart, is calling for the health risks of wireless internet or WiFi to be investigated. Stewart is particularly concerned about health of children who are more vulnerable to radiation.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1549944/Warning-on-wi-fi-health-risk-to-children.html
L.An unpublished report by Becta, the educational technology agency, is raising fresh concerns about the possible health effects of wireless computer networks in schools, saying they could cause headaches. The report said the radiation produced by any device involving wireless technology raised health and safety questions.
http://www.emfacts.com/weblog/?p=693
M.Philip Parkin, the general secretary of the Professional Association of Teachers, has called for a full investigation into the networks. ‘We continue to be concerned about the possible effects of WiFi, particularly on children whose
brains and bodies are still developing,’ he said.
http://www.rospa.com/safetyeducation/info/education.pdf
N.A university in Ontario refused to install WiFi due to health concerns and a school in Illinois has been sued over its WiFi system.
http://www.shortnews.com/start.cfm?id=62074
O.Dr Olle Johansson, of the Karolinska Institute in Sweden, has carried out experiments on radiation similar to or lower than wi-fi and found biological implications. Asked if the commission was right to set limits based on thermal effect, he said: “That’s just rubbish. You cannot put emphasis on such guidelines.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/article1816571.ece
P.The London Resolution (Nov. 2007) calls for no wifi in homes, schools and public places. Paris libraries have banned wifi. The European Environmental Union advises no wifi. The CA EMF program and the World Health Organization urge governments to apply the precautionary principle especially concerning children.
http://waccobb.net/forums/showthread.php?t=30500
Q.Lakehead University(Ontario,Canada)adopted policy of no use of WiFi in those areas of the University already served by hard wire connectivity until such time as the potential health effects have been scientifically rebutted or there are adequate protective measures that can be taken.
The purpose of policy is to limit wireless connectivity based on the “precautionary principle” as there are numerous scientific studies that suggest there is a basis for concern that continuous or frequent long-term exposure to WiFi electromagnetic fields (EMFs) could have adverse health effects.
http://policies.lakeheadu.ca/policy.php?pid=178
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One has to look at the risk and benefit. I think the wifi will bring far more benefit for penang. All tech has its risk. We probably become ill of many other things. If you read CAP mag you will stop breating and eating as everything can cause illness or cancer. But it is good to be aware. Shouldn’t be too paranoid live in fear all the time.
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funny, I see
1) low cost flats next to high tension wire and no one complain (off Jalan Genting Klang, Kuala Lumpur is a classic example)
2) guys put handphone in their pockets and think nothing about the impact on their precious manhood
3) women wear 3 inches high heel without worries for their metatarsal or dye their hair without questioning the substance used
4) people smoke, drink, eat oily food, gamble, do not sleep enough, pop in pills, eat MSGs without worrying about their health issues
5) people have ONS or visit ladies of the night and not worry about the clap and everything else
6) people drive like mad on the road just for the sake of it
WiFi is such a contentious issue now. The best is up to Jeff Ooi to get some clarification, and convincing ones to clear the doubt.
Internet dissemination helped Pakatan in the recent GE. Having the WiFi will counter further the controlled MSM and perhaps make Penang a more interesting place to invest and live in.
We used to forbid people from sailing too far from the mainland because the earth was thought to be flat…well….
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There are many things in life that affect our life. What about water that we drink. Some countries do not flouride the drinking water because there are health concerns. But young children have decay teeth! Even too much chlorine in the water can cause cancer in our human body. What about drinking from plastic cups and bottles? They too cause cancer. What about living close to high tension plyons or the vegetables that grow under these wires because the waste land can be used foe something useful. But we must know that man evolve to adapt. Chinese Malaysians look more like malays due to sun tan over several generations and the food they take. We can get immune over a period of time.
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we need a better sampling of data to substantiate what “just wi-fi” claimed. the fact is that telco engineers can succumb to illnesses doing field work for a variety of reasons not neccessarily radiation alone. industrial chemicals that are used during installation or maintenence work could very well be one of the possible causes…along with harsh working and weather conditions. i’d like to see a controlled experiment if anyone who claims the adverse health effects can really tell the presence of booster amplifiers based on whether he has a headache as what was claimed in the article.
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Some people guarantee cos they know for a fact
Others cannot guarantee cos they know nuts
Yet others argue to make their billion bugs
Some do so cos they are newly elected heroes
Unleashing their new powers for all to see
Sad, sad for all our future generations
Cos fore-fathers are 5 year vision politicians
Mistakes of the west? What’s that?
Listen to the Salesman
Afterall he is paid to convince
Technology is good — buy or else left behind!
And so, we remain, third world savages to the end…!
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U.S.: Over 116 citywide installations in operation with 86 more planned
So what?? We must follow issit? What is good for America must be good la! Niamah!!!
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Thanks Jayen! Interesting links.
Somewhere in wikipedia link you provided stated:
“Financing is usually shared by both the private firm and the municipal government. Once operational, the service may be free, supported by advertising, provided for a monthly charge per user or some combination. ”
“As of 2007, some Muni WiFi deployments are delayed as the private and public partners involved in planned networks continue to negotiate the business model and financing.” (a little scary this one — Jayen, do you know what model Jeffy is looking at?)
As always, I am nervous when I see ads of products that have this big word “FREE” written all over. I wish people can read the fine prints first.
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Just a bit of info that may scare you.
Wifi works in the frequency range of 2.4 GHz in what is commonly called the ISM or free band. There is something interesting about the frequency. This is the resonant frequency of water molecule. What this technical googblygook means is that when water molecule
is subject to radio energy at this frequency, it has the highest level of agitation. That right, water boils when radiated with radio wave at this frequency. How fast it boil depends on the amount of radio energy radiated.
So guess what frequency does your microwave work. That is right 2.4 Ghz (actually 2.45 Ghz).
Imagine your body which is 97% water being radiated with radio wave at 2.4 Ghz for a long time. say 5 years or 10 years. What is this impact to the human body and the brain?
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Chief Minister, I do not want to be radiated upon day and night. Do I have a right? Do I have a choice?
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