Anwar and Shabery shake hands at the end of the debate. So what do you think? Who was the more convincing? Respond to the poll on the sidebar.
2151: Why don’t you give your ideas without talk of changing government, Dato Seri?
Anwar: If they accept our suggestion, we will support them. In Feb 2006, after an earlier price hike, there was 4.8 per cent inflation. Now, after the price hike, inflation has soared to nearly 8 per cent in a month. Venezuela and Iran may have low oil price and high inflation, but we now have high oil price and high inflation! Look at the countries around us – how we have lost out to them in competitiveness. I still believe Malaysia, with its resources, has the potential if it cleans up its act.
Shabery: Mahathir has been blamed for the IPPs, but Anwar was once singing the praises of Mahathir. He should have resigned back then. Why is he only talking about a 50-sen reduction now when the oil price was RM1.92 before the election and he promised to reduce it then? We will only burden the country with high subsidies and could end up in debt to international “money lenders”.
Petronas alone (not the group) gives 91 per cent of its profit to the government. What else is there to give? Petronas is strong because of the government of Umno and BN. We do not burden Petronas but allow it to reinvest. About this talk of abuse of power – we are not alone in raising prices; it’s a global problem.
Anwar: Among oil producers, our price is high. If we want our economy to be strong, if we continue in this direction, our economy will be severely undermined. That’s why I am committed to explaining to the people. I will not respond to Shabery’s personal attacks. I don’t have space on RTM after this. I give you my assurance that i will contest in a by-election in the shortest time.
Shabery: Anwar hasn’t changed much. Those who built Petronas – Razak, Mahathir, Abdullah – Anwar has opposed them. If we continue to ask more money from Petronas to subsidise the country, we could end up poorer and Petronas could end up being taken over. Our GDP growth is 6 per cent, much better than many others. The debate now shows how open the government has become.
2140: In a few years we might not have enough oil. What do we do then? Should we continue the subsidy, or are you going to have a sharp price rise then?
Anwar: Who gave the figure of oil depletion in a few years? That assumes there are no further oil discoveries. Some 30 years ago, our reserves were supposed to last until 2005. Petronas then went abroad to explore. I defend Petronas but I criticise the BN.
The mismanagement of the government, the leakages… It’s true, the IPPs were during my time, but look at the record. Ani Arope was opposed to the EPU and the Prime Minister’s Dept over the IPPs. That’s why he quit.
The IPPs have made billions but those on the losing side are Petronas and TNB. We could plug the leakages and cronyism and save a total of RM3 billion. Who’s idea is this of a sharp oil price rise? This is a IMF-World Bank prescription! It is slanderous to say that I bowed to IMF wishes back in 1997-98.
Petronas said there was a special dividend for the government of RM6 billion this year. Can’t we take RM1 billion of this to reduce the oil price? It is not an issue of Pakatan Rakyat. It is for the people. We are staring at economic recession and unemployment.
2132: Why do you focus on the price of oil and not talk about income tax or reducing inflation?
Shabery: We are not a major oil producer. We are just a minor producer. We are just a small net exporter. Only 26 per cent of Petronas profit is from domestic sources. Petronas has to use its profits to find oil abroad. We now have a world renown oil corporation. Don’t make Petronas too poor.
Anwar: Shabery, who compared Malaysia to Venezuela and Iran? We should look at Malaysia as an oil exporter. The sharp rise has caused economic deterioration. Why did the government break its pre-election promise not to raise oil prices? Who is saying anything about taking Petronas money? My argument is to look at the IPPs and wipe out corruption. Why don’t we manage our treasury better to ease the suffering of the people?
Shabery: This is a populist argument. We can accept it if our oil is isolated from the world or if our oil is the only one that is expensive in the world. The IPPs existed when Anwar was in government, and he defended their contracts back then. Anwar used the methods that the IMF favoured to try and resolve the 1997-98 crisis. It is easy to talk when you are outside. Even with their difficulties now, believe me, the people have enough to eat. Show me a country which gives cheap oil without high inflation.
2128: When you were Finance Minister you sent up a Tabung Warisan. What was the aim?
Anwar: The idea was to keep part of our earnings for the future, but that was not maintained. The sharp price now has led to spiralling inflation. It will have adverse effects. But each rise of US$1 in the price of oil actually results in RM360 million income for us. Right now, the sharp rise in inflation will lead to a deterioration in the economy.
2125: In 2006, when there was a price hike, the government said it would improve public transport. Now they are saying that they are going to use the substantial savings for the benefit of the people. Can we believe that?
Shabery: All the countries that have cheap oil – look at Venezuela and Iran, look at their high inflation rates. We can now overcome our food price crisis. Our rice is cheaper than Thailand. We don’t have to demonstrate on the road or hold indecent concerts.
2120: Your premise of a 50 sen reduction is because Malaysia is an oil producer. But your points about IPP had nothing to do with oil. Are you going to distribute what has been collected through the hard work of others so that you get a good name?
Anwar: IPPs are also involved with oil and gas. Petronas has made a huge profit; its profit ranks it among the top 10 oil companies. We will definitely ask Petronas to reinvest. But Petronas is the right of the people. Are we just going to look after the tycoons and the cronies or the people? The 50 sen reduction is just the first step. The extreme price hike has won no support. The only ones supporting it are the BN MPs..
2111: Would the government have to subsidise foreign oil companies in retail sales if there is a price subsidy as Petronas alone does not control the retail market?
Shabery: If subsidies are given out, it would benefit the rich and foreigners as well. Why don’t we give the money straight to the people who need it? Finland and Norway etc do not have subsidies and have shown good economic performance.
Anwar: If you want to compare with Norway, it has 10 times the per capita income of Malaysia. The petrol price is hurting the poor and marginalised groups and aggravating their suffering. It is our responsibility. Such a sharp rise is burdening the people. If Umno and the ruling coalition don’t realise this, then their future is bleak. What about infrastructure spending – isn’t that a form of subsidy for companies? But we call that “incentives”. On the other hand, aid for the people is called “subsidies”, which are given a negative connotation.
2107: Shabery responds that the government would have to incur a subsidy of RM50 billion if it maintained the price at RM1.92 and that would affect development. He said that global factors also influence the oil price. He recalled the first global crisis in 1973-74, which worsened inflation including in Malaysia. Petronas was formed back then, which wasn’t easy. The people supported Razak’s move. Anwar protested against Razak back then. And Anwar was now doing this again.
2102: Anwar kicks off with his opening statement. He insists that with proper economic management and eradication of corruption, an immediate cut in petrol price of 50 sen is possible. He speaks of the suffering felt by many, particularly the Malays and bumis in Sabah. He points out that TNB has to pay for 40 per cent excess capacity and how Petronas has made an excellent profit of RM100 billion – which could enable the government to raise RM3 billion for distribution to the people through a price reduction.
2100: The one-hour live debate gets underway at Balai Budaya. The moderator warns against raising irrelevant issues. Both speakers receive decent applause.
Share your comments on the debate over TV9, Astro Awani and Bernama TV from 9.00pm. This live write up is specially for those of you who don’t have access to these three stations and those abroad who would like to follow the debate. Please note this is not a verbatim transcript; it just covers the main points raised or emphasised and paraphrases much of what was said.
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Jelaslah yang Menteri Penerangan ini tak tau apa2 mengenai Petrol naik, hanyalah guna nota orang lain dan mengikut cakap saja datang DEBAT.
Kalaulah tahu dan nak tunjukkan pandai, kena beritahu lah bagaimana kerajaan mengagihkan dana untuk tujuan lain and bukan subsidi petrol. Kena jelaslah apa pendapat kerajaan selepas 1 bulan kenaikan minyak, tindakan yang wajar atau terburu-buru. Mengapa cepat sangat nak bagi RM625, kalau harga minyak turun lagi, nak minta balik wang itu kah?
Singapore bukan pengeluar minyak, tetapi harga minyak hanya naik $0.30.
Apakah sebab and kajian yang dilaksanakan oleh kerajaan untuk mengambil langkah naik 71 sen. Inilah yang penonton berminat tahu.
Bukanlah macam bonet and baca ikut nota benda 2 tak berkaitan. Anwar dah tukar and berubah nak jadi baik, kenalah bagi peluang. Sifat memaafkan pun tak ada, macam mana nak jadi pemimpin & menteri.
Kalau tak tau ekonomi, janganlah tunjuk pandai nak ajak berDEBAT.
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Oh please…
Do you seriously think that DSAI didnt personally attack Shabery because the former is a true gentleman? Hah! The only reason why DSAI didnt attack Shabery was because he didnt have any personal dirt on the fellow. If he had, surely he would have used them. He probably would have gotten statutory declarations on Shabery’s misdeeds if he had them and point it out on TV.
To me, DSAI is a very good speaker…but a chameleon. You can talk but talk is cheap. DSAI reminds me of a player who would sweet talk a woman to get her into bed with them, promising them the moon and the stars, telling them what they want to hear. All his theories? are they feasible?
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now it is time for umno/bn to chose a future president or future prime minister by open debate ,so that we have the charismatic PM to lead the country in this global and challenging future….BRAVO Anuar Ibrahim…
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[...] this video missed the first two minutes of Anwar’s opening but you can get a summary of points in English over at Anit Netto’s site. Alternatively you can watch the debate in malaysiakini’s channel in [...]
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Anwar the great is unmatchable in debate,oratory,intellect and wisdom as proven in this debate on ‘OIL Price Episode’ with Shabery. But what is serious now for Anwar and all Malaysians is the warrant of arrest issued on Anwar on this so-called repeat sodomy allegations against a grandfather Anwar. The world is laughing at our stupidity as a nation of 25 million people on such allegations. Shame Shame Shame !!!. Anwar should talk to the CID Chief Bakri coolly and cogently as he did at the debate to convince him (Bakri)to face reality and rationality.
RR
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Shabery clearly lack debating and oratorical skills.
But anyway, he was brave enough to put himself and UMNO to shame in front of the national audience.
Rightfully the debate should be between DSAI and AAB. But UMNO cannot afford to put AAB on stage as he may fall asleep even before the debate begins.
If this is what the UMNO dominated government can offer, the future of our country is indeed bleak.
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The government already looking at implementing windfall tax to IPP, therefore Shabery can easily said the excess IPP profit is already taken care off. But there is no information on how this windfall tax going to spend on rakyat.
Distorted price of oil is not good for overall efficiency of the country. Look at Thailand, no subsidized oil, but you can buy goods cheaper in Bangkok or Hadyai compare to Alor Star, how they manage to cope with unsubsidized oil? It is efficiency in transportation and their supply chain, they are force to cope with it. We Malaysian are too fortunate, if Shabery use economic efficiency for the future generation, he can turn the table at least, not so bad as using personal attack.
Well said DSAI, i believe if time permit, DSAI will touch further on how to effectively develop the economy with efficiency, and not based on “quotas”.
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Why Sha-berry? He qualified at all to debate with Dato Seri, he consistently use personal attack on Dato Seri. This is a debate not a childish program, only child will do it and undoubtedly, sha-berry has demonstrated himself as a never grown adult. What will happen if the country is being led by people like sha-berry??
Sha-berry never seem could answer most of the questions being thrown to him. Further more, the person (reprenstative) that sha-berry has chosen also used personal attack (double shameful).
Dato Seri won the debate. The advantage of Dato Seri is he has more experience than Sha-berry and that’s why he won. But again, I think Dato Seri will still make it if they bring up the Sleeping Beauty and the C4 guy. That’s why both of them were unwillingly to come out because these two guys are even silly then Sha-berry.
I’m strongly support Dato Seri concept by reduce Petrol price gradually. However, BN YB not event can understand this concept….we should send all BN YB back to school to ready learn from beginning.
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There is no doubt who was the victor ! Let us not be offtrack that allowing this debate means that the govt is more open, transparent, blah! blah! blah! but in fact watch over the MISmanagement of the country economy by the current govt.
Remember that the previous round of fuel increase? It was stated that the savings was for better transportation purpose. Well good idea but where is the improvement of transportation today? We are not born yesterday to be fool by the govt of the day and they think they can take us all for a ride.
I hate to mention S’pore but a fact is still a fact. What have they got from their ground (natural resources)? Nil and what are they in the eyes of the world today? A top govt with good management skills that care for their people by giving their citizen bonus from the profits of their GLCs. Also not forgetting that their success is the painstacking process of uplifting the standards of their human resource through premier education. We can certainly learn a thing or two from them if we are humble enough to admit our mistakes. They may not be perfect but are certainly giving us as neighbour a run for our money in attracting foreign investors.
We need the right people to manage this country depleting resources and when the oil runs dry by 2015 as indicated by the top people in Petronas, it still boils down to management as from what I understand, Petronas have had invested in many countries abroad and there are oil in those countries UNLESS we are paying good money for nothing !!! Paying cronies in the tune of billions just to show that they are digging for oil and came up nothing,… just my guess. With good overall govt management, we can develop other infinite resources unlike oil that will eventually dry in any part of the world in time to come.
So BN, since you have show your hands now, give us someone more credible in the likes of the prince from …. Kelantan who is definitely many bars above or maybe even KJ to see what he has learned from the great Uni that he graduated. Come on lah !
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OMG…Shabery was a complete joke. And he is a cabinet minister! If you are a reflection of the quality of our cabinet members, I must say I regret what I did on March 8…like that I oso wan to be minister lah can ah? Can lah, if like u oso can…
Am not a supporter of Anwar but I have to admit he was immense. Looking at the living options we have to lead the country, perhaps Anwar is one of the best available alongside Tun Dr M (oh I really hope you consider coming back!), Tun Musa H, Tengku Razaleigh.
I appreciate those of you who try to be nice by congratulating Shabery for his guts to face Anwar in the debate. For f*** sake he is a Minister in Malaysian Cabinet who earns thousands from our tax money…intelligence & guts should be givens to qualify for such a post. Sorry Shabery, no sympathy for you…step down you clown.
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[...] YouTube 之类的网站看那么 cheap skate。不过有些人比较喜欢读对白，看士多啤利 Chick [...]
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Sabree bukan lawan DSAI untuk debat pasal ekonomi M’sia sebenarnya..Dia tak tau ape2..tau,tp ckit..terlalu cetek..
Sabree boleh masuk debat,tp bukan tajuk camni la…tajuk2 yang orang kampung mudah faham boleh la.Ini tajuk untuk org yang tau saje..
Adoi..sedih btul betul Sabree..
Orang nk dengar dia ulas pasal harga minyak..ni duk mgunkit cite lame..cite2 jalanan..yg dia dulu duk ikut sal Semangat 46 tu nape..Diam dia semalam bila DSAI sebut pasal tu..ternganga dia…
Tu la,pikir duk pikir mari elok DSAI jelah jadi PM..bukan sebab dia pandai berdebat..tapi cara dia nk solve problem tu yang hebat..
Sebenarnya pemimpim kita pun ada idea nk solve problem sal minyak ni,tp tu le,diorg bukan berjiwa rakyat..
Ape diorg kisah,peduli la rakyat hidup susah pun,janji aku senang,janji kantung aku penuh..
Maybe bukan semua pemimpim macam tu,tp ade yang segelintir tu lah yang merisaukan saya…
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[...] bloggers have a good account of how they felt watching the debate: malaysianunplug, anil netto, [...]
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our information minister has commited mockery of the highest order.He not only failed to bring forward his points and arguements effectively but has given DSAI a chance to humiliate the intelligence of BN and UMNO leaders in running the country’s economy. DSAI has also used this opportunity to gain political milage as he maintained his professionalism and sticked to the topic of discussion unlike his counterpart who clearly resorted to character assassination and comparing our economy with countries which are far from any similarities compared to Malaysia. DSAI poited out that the sudden hike in fossil fuels had caused a vicious cycle that brought upon increase in price of essential goods and cost of living. He is therefore suggesting that the government should consider lovering down fuel prices in view that we are a net oil exporter and higher global fuel prices means better profits. The fossil fuel in this country belongs to the people and it is unimaginable if the Rakyat are forced to pay more for the things harvested from their own backyard. My opinion on yesterdays debate is DSAI completely blended Strawberry into jam/puree so much so we have enough to spread the embarrasment to all BN and UMNO politicians.We have seen enough of their antics even in parliment and the rakyat now are not as mis-informed as before. I feel Pakatan has a good chance now with the support from literates, poor and marginalised community.
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after i read all this comment…i feel proud of all the malaysian.. cause i believe they all have a sharp view and clear mind to our economic… better than our minister of information… government, pls believe: WE ALL GOT EYES TO SEE WHT U TRYING TO DO ON OUR MONEY!!
this debate.. anuar tell the truth.. we are suffer to be malaysian now, by treating so bad from our “proud government”, keep on suck our blood money but do nothing.. someday u have to pay it back since u took such much. just wait for the time.
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Dear Malaysian,
1.It is sad to see that Malay will not have their motherland secure
a.Every country have their identity protected,eg Chinese and European country.
2.I am proud to see, the only Muslim country has prosper forward with good development,during his excellency Dr Mahatir in power.he is very well respected in oversea by Muslim,and i wonder Why Malaysian dont appreciate his hard work.?Are Malaysian being blind or just have as soft ear,of what his excellecy have projected for Malaysian.Or are Malays is just having the same kampung thinking???.Malays must wake up,this is only Muslim country without debts,they must appreciate his excellency Dr Mahatir.bear in mind those who want to see the fall of Malaysia is appreciating what is happening now???????/
3.Belive me, as an oversea Muslim,we understand what his Excellency have projected for Malaysian.Although he have made some calculated risks,which every goverment in the world have made,this should be acceptable,by looking at his good track record.
4.It is sad that Badawi is not in,the Debate??.Mahatir should take on Anwar,Shabery is not prepared yet.although he have the courage to do that.he will learn in coming years,give him a break.
Please in the name of Allah,WE are given,the greatest give in every Muslim country,that is minerals.Please use it wisely.Already lost the Malay identity in spore.Question now is,Is Malaysia also going to loose that identity.I am not saying about racial.Non malays must understand with an open mind.This is not about racial.Is Malay going to make the same mistake again?.I am not encouraging racial discrimination,but this is a fact,malay or muslim is loosing their territorial,pls get back on the track.If we fail we are defying what Allah has given us.
Friend of Malaysian
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Is a good start to Malaysian I would say…
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You don’t watch debate, as you are at the football field,waiting for goals to be scored by your favourite team.You don’t expect debaters to adduce reasons in bringing up facts and figures.You need to have some good functioning brain cells up there,inorder to comprehend what and why something has been said.Otherwise you may easily be susceptible to a personal assailant and assassin’s points of argument. In a debates we don’t wish to listen to personal attacks(a total of more than 20 times) as adduced by Sabry.What has beeen our expectation of him, was nothing then the What,How and Why something can be or can not be done in the crucial effort to bring down oil price.He was very much on the defensive most of the time.Sorry to say,we have been unable to gather anything from his part.
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Is is sad to see that Mr Badawi,did not delivered good substance as compare to Dr Mahatir.This was observe during his public speech,pertaining to economic and policies.look at spore minister,how they delivered their speech,it is full of facts and figures was laid out.
Mr Badawi speech,is just as normal graduate could delivered,as compare to Dr Mahatir.Malaysia is loosing the credibility,if the representative of a developing country is not well verse with all policies??????????????
Sorry about my comments,but this is a facts.
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Just one question, if what this Sheepberry guy says its true, that the govt is using the savings to subsidize the food, why is it that the food prices keep GOING UP? The rice has gone up nearly RM 25 per bag compared to before. ALL essential cooking prices have gone skyward. What farce is this? What cheaper food prices are they talking about? Of course the rich politicians wont know this and wont be affected the way poor people are affected.
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I would like to say ‘Well Done’ to Datuk Shabery. He had done the ‘the best he could’. For DSAI.. i would like to say ‘well done’ too of your fruitfull ideas. The real argument is not ‘who lose ..who win’ . Remember: No good solution – ‘rakyatlah LOSE’ . What is the next step – taken by the present goverment??? Any fruitfull and meaningful ‘solution’? Why….?
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Question now is?
1.Why Anuar is afraid?He is ex minister,he should understand the job of police.
2.Why Anuar need protection from the West?he is just accommodating what the west tell him to do.
3.If Anuar is going to the Syariah court,is he prepared to be punish the islamic way of sodomy offences?Is Malaysian ready for that kind of punishment which is stated Holy Quran.
4.Or the complainant will be punish also for allowing this to happen?
5.If anuar really care for Malaysia,Come out the proposal in written order in public.????
6.i only can think that,if corruption do happen,bring them to syariah court,they will know the consequence.
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Mr. Rashid Khan … I think before the rest of the commentors makes you a target, I suggest that you no longer post anymore. You have lived overseas too long to understand the real situation and experience here in this country.
Commenting based on news that you read is as good as just that. Also it is good that you should stop talking nonsense on loosing identity, loosing territory etc because we live in the new century. What bloody territory or identity who you want to protect if the nation and all of its constituents irregardless of race is unable to compete, do not have adequate access to compete, their rights are being abused, nation’s wealth being plundered and the whole economy being bloody mismanage for enriching the few?
Now we are talking about progress, Jalan ke depan, social growth, education excellence and access to competitive enviroment & resources for people irregardless of race to build great companies that can compete around the world which in turn provide jobs, glorify the nation, buy economic resources such as companies or lands in other countries etc. We are in serious need of innovative companies and people to produce and create world beating products. That is how this coutnry is going to make it.
This is a connected world. You can gain any territory around the world you want if you are competitive, smart and resourceful.
Protecting this right lar, this territory lar that territory lar, this identity lar that identity lar what is that??? That is thinking backwards. Now we need to move forward, think forward, do something that is progressive.
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Ingat DSAI adalah bekas seorang Timbalan Perdana Menteri dan beliau juga adalah seorang Menteri kewangan selama 8 tahun. DSAI ini cukup mengetahui segala pentadbiran kewangan negara. Siapa Menteri sabery Chik ini, beliau baru jadi menteri 3 bulan yang lalu,baru mula pakai bush jacket dan blezer. OK berbalik kepada debat semalam, nyata benar sabery bukan orang yang sepatutnya untuk berhadapan dengan DSAI, kerana kita boleh nampak cara beliau berhujah,dan diungkit tentang hal yang dah lapuk,sekitar tahun 1974, ini tiada kena mengena,kita sedang berbincang masaah kenaikan minyak,masalh ini ditanggung oleh seluruh raykat negara ini. kerajaan yang ada kena bertanggungjawab dalam hal ini.Menteri ini hendaklah dirujuk kepada DSAI untuk mendapat formula bagaimana cara untuk pihak kerajaan menurunkan minyak sepertimana yang disarankan oleh DSAI dalam masa DEBAT semalam.
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Anwar takj with substance. Shabery talk c***. That’s the difference. Anwar won hands down!
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