Comments on: Must a business be profit driven? http://anilnetto.com/economy/malaysian-financebusiness/oneheart-used-books-haven-with-a-difference/ Let justice flow like a mighty river Sat, 26 May 2012 05:26:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Diong Chae Lian http://anilnetto.com/economy/malaysian-financebusiness/oneheart-used-books-haven-with-a-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-39530 Diong Chae Lian Mon, 22 Feb 2010 04:00:27 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=18892#comment-39530 But even a non-profit looks to increasing revenue in order to continue or expand its work. Based on your explanation of what OneHeart does, it would seem that they're already operating as a non-profit. So the question remains, why do they refuse to be set up that way? After all, there are many NGOs out there which have made the effort to establish their legal framework properly so it puzzles me why some folks take the "easy" route of setting up a business entity instead. But even a non-profit looks to increasing revenue in order to continue or expand its work. Based on your explanation of what OneHeart does, it would seem that they’re already operating as a non-profit. So the question remains, why do they refuse to be set up that way?

After all, there are many NGOs out there which have made the effort to establish their legal framework properly so it puzzles me why some folks take the “easy” route of setting up a business entity instead.

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]]> By: kahseng http://anilnetto.com/economy/malaysian-financebusiness/oneheart-used-books-haven-with-a-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-39479 kahseng Sun, 21 Feb 2010 02:42:31 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=18892#comment-39479 Mist's comment also highlights the normally invisible sad story of the honest entrepreneurs. Here is an honest academic, looking to do business. Till the end he doesn't realize that it is precisely because the government is too powerful, that he can only compete to be less scrupulous than the competitors to gain favor, or become destroyed. The hidden fact is many honest businessmen have been destroyed by government-sponsored but less-competent cronies, through not just NEP but any sort of government control. The more we support government ownership/rescue/ subsidies/financing/control of banks, toll roads, telecom, retailers, industries, even sponsored help for small businesses and restaurant chains, the more honest businessmen will be pushed aside by well-connected but incompetent players. Since such honest entrepreneurs no longer exist, you don't see them, and you thought they never existed. Why are the richest people in Malaysia monopoly trader of some sort (sugar, media, rice, gambling, etc), while the richest people in the US are innovators in investments, software, management, engineering, who brought new ideas and business models to the whole world (even though our jealous media often term them "robber barons")? Mist’s comment also highlights the normally invisible sad story of the honest entrepreneurs. Here is an honest academic, looking to do business. Till the end he doesn’t realize that it is precisely because the government is too powerful, that he can only compete to be less scrupulous than the competitors to gain favor, or become destroyed.

The hidden fact is many honest businessmen have been destroyed by government-sponsored but less-competent cronies, through not just NEP but any sort of government control.

The more we support government ownership/rescue/ subsidies/financing/control of banks, toll roads, telecom, retailers, industries, even sponsored help for small businesses and restaurant chains, the more honest businessmen will be pushed aside by well-connected but incompetent players.

Since such honest entrepreneurs no longer exist, you don’t see them, and you thought they never existed.

Why are the richest people in Malaysia monopoly trader of some sort (sugar, media, rice, gambling, etc), while the richest people in the US are innovators in investments, software, management, engineering, who brought new ideas and business models to the whole world (even though our jealous media often term them “robber barons”)?

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]]> By: kahseng http://anilnetto.com/economy/malaysian-financebusiness/oneheart-used-books-haven-with-a-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-39468 kahseng Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:05:36 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=18892#comment-39468 Corruption in business stems from corruption in government. If we have only a minimal government that only serves to prohibit extortion and robbery, then business would have to compete against each other to please the CONSUMERS for any profit. But with a powerful government which can set excessive rules, regulations, approval process, restriction, etc, then each businessman will compete against each other to please the GOVERNMENT bureaucrat first. How? By bribery, of course. For what? For monopolistic rights to import certain products, build on certain piece of land, run certain taxi/lorry routes, build certain roads. Those who win will charge the consumers. This is what you call "business" corruption? The truth is, the root of the corruption is excessive power at the government's hands. Why then does the government have excessive power (and we know power corrupts)? Because you do-gooders thought this is the easy way to help the poor and helpless. Tax and welfare. True charity must be private. True safety net is private and competitive insurance (whether for profit or not). Ask the government to give love and give it power, then you have "business" corruption. Mist's comment above about developer corruption is completely right. The same corruption is in industry, import/export, transport, banking services, etc. But the problem is big government, not individual, honest entrepreneurs. Also the problem is not profit. When competition is there, profit is temporary excess value created by an innovator. It is soon competed away. The entrepreneur will need to keep running to maintain a profit. Only government intervention can prolong profit without innovation. If you dislike profit, here's my favorite quote about the evil of money: http://jim.com/money.htm Corruption in business stems from corruption in government. If we have only a minimal government that only serves to prohibit extortion and robbery, then business would have to compete against each other to please the CONSUMERS for any profit.

But with a powerful government which can set excessive rules, regulations, approval process, restriction, etc, then each businessman will compete against each other to please the GOVERNMENT bureaucrat first. How? By bribery, of course. For what? For monopolistic rights to import certain products, build on certain piece of land, run certain taxi/lorry routes, build certain roads.

Those who win will charge the consumers.

This is what you call “business” corruption? The truth is, the root of the corruption is excessive power at the government’s hands.

Why then does the government have excessive power (and we know power corrupts)? Because you do-gooders thought this is the easy way to help the poor and helpless. Tax and welfare.

True charity must be private. True safety net is private and competitive insurance (whether for profit or not). Ask the government to give love and give it power, then you have “business” corruption.

Mist’s comment above about developer corruption is completely right. The same corruption is in industry, import/export, transport, banking services, etc. But the problem is big government, not individual, honest entrepreneurs.

Also the problem is not profit. When competition is there, profit is temporary excess value created by an innovator. It is soon competed away. The entrepreneur will need to keep running to maintain a profit. Only government intervention can prolong profit without innovation.

If you dislike profit, here’s my favorite quote about the evil of money: http://jim.com/money.htm

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]]> By: tunglang http://anilnetto.com/economy/malaysian-financebusiness/oneheart-used-books-haven-with-a-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-39270 tunglang Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:36:36 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=18892#comment-39270 Most entrepreneurs start with a dream. From a dream, he creates a vision. What kind of a vision depends on the entrepreneur. Next he plans his mission. This is where the differences are. Some want to do it honestly. Some think it's alright to cheat, bribe, kill, or sabotage. Some only believe in profit, not losses (the Kia Su type). Some start honestly and later become disillusioned. Most if I'm not wrong, think business is only to make more money and nothing else. Well, it is good while the going is good. B'cos money makes friendship, power, status and influence. But the moment, business starts to crumble, we can see what kind of an enterpreneur he is. Not the iron-strong type. But the ugly sides! Money then becomes his worst enemy. The trouble is, who guarantees profit all the way? See, money does not make the world go round. It is only a means to an end. And business is only one part of life. There's more to life than business. If you think otherwise, tell me how when you die, will you carry the money with you. Most entrepreneurs start with a dream. From a dream, he creates a vision.
What kind of a vision depends on the entrepreneur. Next he plans his mission. This is where the differences are.

Some want to do it honestly. Some think it’s alright to cheat, bribe, kill, or sabotage. Some only believe in profit, not losses (the Kia Su type). Some start honestly and later become disillusioned.

Most if I’m not wrong, think business is only to make more money and nothing else. Well, it is good while the going is good. B’cos money makes friendship, power, status and influence.

But the moment, business starts to crumble, we can see what kind of an enterpreneur he is. Not the iron-strong type. But the ugly sides! Money then becomes his worst enemy. The trouble is, who guarantees profit all the way?

See, money does not make the world go round. It is only a means to an end. And business is only one part of life. There’s more to life than business. If you think otherwise, tell me how when you die, will you carry the money with you.

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]]> By: ghkok http://anilnetto.com/economy/malaysian-financebusiness/oneheart-used-books-haven-with-a-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-39262 ghkok Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:58:55 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=18892#comment-39262 Hi Anil, I think you are mixing up too many things - corruption/ethics, profit/non-profit, green/polluting, caring/cold, etc. etc. These are all separate issues. Yes, corruption is a big issue. Yes, it's as bad in everyday life as it is in govt life. Yes, Msian society is downright greedy and extremely corrupt. Yes, many people boast about how they "pay" to get contracts, or what gifts they are receiving from suppliers ... yes, this is bad, it is disgusting, we need to do something about it. On my part, i lead an honest life and tell my kids that's the way to go. Lots of opportunity to show by example. Many people also thrive without any corruption. They work honestly, save and invest wisely. We do what we can as individuals, and we hope society will change going forward. At the same time, we need to support the politics that assure us that corruption will not be tolerated. A good example is the recent resignation of Zahrain. I will tell my kids how he was hoping to get a contract for (a RM2 company), and how the state govt rejected this. This is a good "learning moment" of how corruption is NOT being tolerated. But this has got nothing to do with profit/non-profit or green/polluting. So I'm a bit confused.. Hi Anil,

I think you are mixing up too many things – corruption/ethics, profit/non-profit, green/polluting, caring/cold, etc. etc.

These are all separate issues. Yes, corruption is a big issue. Yes, it’s as bad in everyday life as it is in govt life. Yes, Msian society is downright greedy and extremely corrupt. Yes, many people boast about how they “pay” to get contracts, or what gifts they are receiving from suppliers … yes, this is bad, it is disgusting, we need to do something about it. On my part, i lead an honest life and tell my kids that’s the way to go. Lots of opportunity to show by example. Many people also thrive without any corruption. They work honestly, save and invest wisely. We do what we can as individuals, and we hope society will change going forward. At the same time, we need to support the politics that assure us that corruption will not be tolerated. A good example is the recent resignation of Zahrain. I will tell my kids how he was hoping to get a contract for (a RM2 company), and how the state govt rejected this.

This is a good “learning moment” of how corruption is NOT being tolerated.

But this has got nothing to do with profit/non-profit or green/polluting. So I’m a bit confused..

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]]> By: Iron http://anilnetto.com/economy/malaysian-financebusiness/oneheart-used-books-haven-with-a-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-39254 Iron Wed, 17 Feb 2010 09:42:10 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=18892#comment-39254 There are two types of people in this world. One type lives in the real world, and another type lives in the dream world. You want to keep on dreaming, please be my guest. Go on dreaming you can run a business without profit. And oh, btw, socialism has failed, just in case the dreamers don't know that yet. There are two types of people in this world.

One type lives in the real world, and another type lives in the dream world.

You want to keep on dreaming, please be my guest.

Go on dreaming you can run a business without profit.

And oh, btw, socialism has failed, just in case the dreamers don’t know that yet.

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]]> By: tunglang http://anilnetto.com/economy/malaysian-financebusiness/oneheart-used-books-haven-with-a-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-39248 tunglang Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:45:47 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=18892#comment-39248 One question: How profitable is really profitable to you? It is never enough to work on profitability, which more often than not leads to wanting more than is enough to realise one's business objectives. You may say it creates more jobs, but when the going gets tough, profitability tends to rear its ugly sides of business practice. One has to be more holistic in thinking which can determine a better approach to business, not just to making money as the sole means to an end. One question: How profitable is really profitable to you?
It is never enough to work on profitability, which more often than not leads to wanting more than is enough to realise one’s business objectives.
You may say it creates more jobs, but when the going gets tough, profitability tends to rear its ugly sides of business practice.
One has to be more holistic in thinking which can determine a better approach to business, not just to making money as the sole means to an end.

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]]> By: Bigjoe http://anilnetto.com/economy/malaysian-financebusiness/oneheart-used-books-haven-with-a-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-39232 Bigjoe Wed, 17 Feb 2010 06:21:54 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=18892#comment-39232 The short answer to your question is YES. But just because a business is driven by profit, does not mean its allowed to break rules, do evil or harm or unethical. Business that break rules, unethical and cause harm are just bad business just as there are bad people and good people doing bad things. While its true that a company that is overly profit driven causes harm, the main key word is 'overly' or excessively. In life and nature, anything in excess generally have bad effects. Too much altruism is devastating - look at communism and every socialist experiment ever tried. But for a business to survive, grow and progress for whatever its intended to do, profit must be its main and largely its driver. It is its nature. For an example of altruistic company look at Patagonia and understand how hard or limiting altruism is. Altruism is best separated from business. The short answer to your question is YES. But just because a business is driven by profit, does not mean its allowed to break rules, do evil or harm or unethical. Business that break rules, unethical and cause harm are just bad business just as there are bad people and good people doing bad things.

While its true that a company that is overly profit driven causes harm, the main key word is ‘overly’ or excessively. In life and nature, anything in excess generally have bad effects. Too much altruism is devastating – look at communism and every socialist experiment ever tried.

But for a business to survive, grow and progress for whatever its intended to do, profit must be its main and largely its driver. It is its nature.

For an example of altruistic company look at Patagonia and understand how hard or limiting altruism is. Altruism is best separated from business.

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]]> By: anilnetto http://anilnetto.com/economy/malaysian-financebusiness/oneheart-used-books-haven-with-a-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-39230 anilnetto Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:50:41 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=18892#comment-39230 From what I heard, they want to make a profit to sustain their business but it's not their primary over-riding objective. From what I heard, they want to make a profit to sustain their business but it’s not their primary over-riding objective.

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]]> By: Mist http://anilnetto.com/economy/malaysian-financebusiness/oneheart-used-books-haven-with-a-difference/comment-page-1/#comment-39229 Mist Wed, 17 Feb 2010 05:46:09 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=18892#comment-39229 If what we see and know reflect accurately reality we have to ask ourselves how we should respond to such an environment. If we could accept such reality then depression would not be our response. Accepting reality doesn't mean we accept what is going on but rather we are not denying what is really happening. Recently someone tried to malign someone I was working with. His advice was well-intentioned and I appreciated his concern. He was genuinely concern. I told him that there are always some good in the worst of us and even in the best of us there are some bad. Often we don't know what is good and what is bad. A father caning a child may be viewed as bad and the poor father may be accused of abusing the child. I told him that I try to work within the good in this person while minimising the harm the person may be able to inflict on me. As it turned out the people who really do the worst harm are those who are viewed as good and honourable... Likewise within a community that is bent on serving itself how do we work within the good of this community while we ourselves do not become contaminated by it? Of course if we are so inclined we could just join the crowd and that would be the easy thing to do. We should also always be mindful of the harm we do while we are trying to do good. Bottomline is that ALL of us are delusional. If what we see and know reflect accurately reality we have to ask ourselves how we should respond to such an environment. If we could accept such reality then depression would not be our response. Accepting reality doesn’t mean we accept what is going on but rather we are not denying what is really happening.

Recently someone tried to malign someone I was working with. His advice was well-intentioned and I appreciated his concern. He was genuinely concern. I told him that there are always some good in the worst of us and even in the best of us there are some bad. Often we don’t know what is good and what is bad. A father caning a child may be viewed as bad and the poor father may be accused of abusing the child.

I told him that I try to work within the good in this person while minimising the harm the person may be able to inflict on me. As it turned out the people who really do the worst harm are those who are viewed as good and honourable…

Likewise within a community that is bent on serving itself how do we work within the good of this community while we ourselves do not become contaminated by it? Of course if we are so inclined we could just join the crowd and that would be the easy thing to do.

We should also always be mindful of the harm we do while we are trying to do good. Bottomline is that ALL of us are delusional.

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