Rev Michael Thoo has released a press state statement from the office of the Penang Bishop. Here is the statement in full:
In response to recent and current newspaper reports on the “eviction exercise” of’ 14 houses within the grounds of the Church of St. Francis Xavier, Penang Road, 10000 Georgetown, Penang the church wishes to clarify as follows:
- There are 14 semi-concrete pre-war houses within the grounds of the Church of St. Francis, Penang Road, George Town, Penang. The houses are old and have no architectural value.
- Other buildings on the land are the St Joseph’s Home for orphans and children from broken homes, the Learning Centre for children with learning disabilities and the “Lighthouse” which provides free food for the needy and school buildings. These social welfare and charitable organisations are run and/or supported by the church.
- Twelve of the houses are occupied by monthly tenants paying nominal monthly rentals between RM60 to RM200. It is not true that all the tenants have not been paying the monthly rentals for the last 36 months as ieported in the issue of The Catholic Herald dated 31 May 2009 and The Star dated 2 June 2009;
- Two houses are presently empty.
- Unfortunately, one of the two tenants who vacated her house (No. 52-L, Penang Road, Penang) proceeded to remove the zinc and timber roof truss from the house thus creating a potential hazard.
When church’s workers started removing the plywood wall of the house to prevent the potential danger of the unstable wall from collapsing, the MPPP acted rightfully in requesting the church to stop work. The church regrets this inadvertent violation of the law. That house is infested by termites and is in danger of imminent collapse.
- The church has no record of the residents being there for four generations as reported. Some of the residents had moved out in the past and new tenants had moved in.
- The church intends to use the said 14 houses after refurbishment for its religious, welfiare and charitable purposes as it is doing now.
- The refurbishment of the houses will be done in accordance with Unesco and local council guidelines, regulations and by-laws.
- The church has no intention to sell the land to the Cititel Hotel group or to embark on a “property development project” as reported. Consequently, all such reports are baseless and mischievous.
- The church is mindful of the economic plight of some of the residents. It is for this reason that the church has decided to give them ample notice of two years to deliver vacant possession of the houses occupied by them. In addition, the church has also decided to give them an “ex-gratia” payment of RM10,000 per household in order to assist them to relocate. No rentals will be collected from the residents during these two years from 1 June 2008 till 31 May 2010.
Dated the 5th day of June, 2OO9.
Signed
Rev Michael Thoo
from the office of the Rt Rev Antony Selvayanagam,
The Titular Roman Catholic Bishop of Penang
Well i cant help it. Hopefully this would be my last comment now.
Ann -
i do not know you. I do not intend to spike you. You can keep your other check because i did not ask nor intend to attack you on the other. It is just a (yes) cynical question to you asking you to give it a thought.
Jerry (not u alonelah – for all to hear out too)
despite our different views. Yes the church has to be like what u said. However since it is a massive institution (if it is not then what is it?? It has been so since it began 2009 yrs ago) it also cannot forget the administration part and other technicalities. The hierarchy is there but i feel it is for our own good and for the faith as a whole not for power but for guidance as well yes for control and protection of the institution. It is a basic organizational structure we are all exposed to everyday. Miss use of this structure is human and it is regrettable but before we say it is a misuse we need to have a check and balance on the issue. Ask all the 4Ws n 1H and yes also in different perspective. You would see in many instances there is no right nor wrong nor any deviation. If you see compared to pre-Vatican II times and now is there not, more involvement of the community in every parish? The church undergoes evolution i would like to say and as one, it is slow, good as we take careful steps not to turn away from Christ. Example – the church stand on pre-marital sex, abortion and contraception. Jerry was talking about the whole picture about not letting the church to become a pharisee institution. Well since the people has also taken stage in running parishes and so on i doubt the church will turn into one. There is more to discuss about this. And now when one talks about the church one must take into consideration the people too. There is an incident where one catholic parish rejected the help of a Methodist church to use its grounds temporarily while they build a new church, and this is the choice of the people and not the priest. Priest? People? Guidance? People do not listen how?
But the issue now is simple. After much debate the issue is still eviction. Should the church evict them. I have posted many questions up there in past comments but none were answered except those which were not questions. What do you want the church to do? How long more should they stay? In the mean time how will the church then run its future plans. If i am not mistaken SFX has been closed as a parish right? If so then you cant leave the land unattended to right? If not like any other unattended land , “ia akan diceroboh” or be claimed by others giving rise to border disputes. (Not saying those people are the ‘penceroboh’ ok). This has a lot of technicalities involved so before answering them please do not simply throw in answers. Assume you are in the Bishops position and discuss your answers.
For spiritual solutions you look at the Biblelah but for technical problems i think it is the wrong book. It is because the world is not following that one book called the Bible. Take the Bible as a guide and get the concepts, use current knowledge and understanding and understand the situation of this issue and also look at the possible outcomes etc etc of both sides before giving an answer.
My answers is that the church has the right to evict them and they do not push aside the ‘churches humanitarian aspect or other religious aspects’ because not only about technical issues but also in the first place they are already renting and time has come they should vacate. They have been given adequate or not, compensation but to the least enough to get another place for rent or as a down payment for a low cost flats which by the looks from the video would have better living conditions. (I am thinking why give compensation in the first place). It has been generations the tenants have lived there therefore they should also take this opportunity to move on and not be clinging to the church as if the church owes them something. As i can see the church has been generous to give them 2 yrs notice, (please take note) to leave and also did not push them nor force them to pay rent when they did not. How sweet of the church. Here too i feel that the church is promoting people empowerment not to be dependent or staying on the comfort and generosity of others. (You may say it is their church as we are the church, well it is my church too). Furthermore now there is a chance for the children to take full responsibility of their parents. Therefore those tenants are NOT being thrown out into the rain.
We cant asses the whole church using our limited knowledge about the church itself (the church does not lie within a coconut shell). Just like how we cant understand God being an infinite “power” with our finite brains. It is not fair for the church. To asses it, one needs to understand its beginnings and its evolution. It is difficult. What not now to judge??
The Bible is not to be taken literally because it is not written in the first place as such. If it is taken literally then an eye for an eye then the whole world would go blind as Gandhi put it which is simply true. To understand the Bible the same way one needs to understand its beginnings. Reading it over and over again without guidance theological and philosophically one can get lost or led astray themselves. It has happen, is happening and even history has its proof. One reason why I don’t like Bible quoting to justify situations is this. There are times when u can quote and there are time you should not. But whatever it is when quoted make sure one has solid justification for it and not for its mere literal meaning of it.
Let rest our cases – Peace
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Greg,
As christians we must refer to the bible for guidance. Moreover it is not the clergy who have a monopoly of the bible. It is for all people.
Do the bible quotes hurt you because you feel you and the church have not lived up to the teachings of Jesus? As christians we must ensure we do not qualify ourselves as “the cursed” in Matt 25:41
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Greg,
Whether you agree with me or not, we have to go back to the early church for guidance. The church functioned more like a mobile church spreading their influence to every village they visited. They didn’t need large buildings as churches because theirs was a church of values and principles and not buildings.
You divorce christianity from daily life whereas the early church didn’t.
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There is no agreeing to this or not but a fact which you are wrong. The early church did go mobile and you know why? Because for 325 years till the council of Nicaea and when Emperor Constantine embraced the presence of Christianity, they were persecuted. So when one gets persecuted of course one wont see buildings and so on. And also due to this mobility there arised many gnostic teachings and writings which became deviant so much so at that council, a stronger institution was formed to INSTITUTE Christ teachings and it is only THEN the bible was born. Before that i let you go and figure how the Word spread??? Even it is on Pentecost that the church was born and the apostles went far as possible to preach but still came back together to discuss on how they have to INSTITUTE Christ teachings.
God is not only for personal use, He is for all. Jesus came to a community and not to a person. The church has many well learned people (clergy and LAY for your information) to interpret the bible and therefor what the church teaches us is a result of collective, well studied (long studied) constantly evolving teachings. It is not ‘sendirian berhad’ believes. So it is wiser to follow more wiser people to be wiser. The church lives for the community and does not promote God for personal use. Where 2 or 3 meet I would be in their midst. So the church buildings is where we all come together to worship Christ. Building is big to accommodate the population and is that not logical?? And it is only rightful to give the best for God is it not? Therefor having beautiful churches is ok right? Didn’t God liked Abel more for his offerings? Even just ‘say’ when one has the means to build a house don’t you think one will build it beautifully?? The cursed are those who make God only for their own salvation and hypocrites. The Catholic Church instituted by Christ on the Rock (St. Peter) teaches us the interrelationship (a triad i would like to put it) of God, Self and Community. This ‘triad’ is ONE body and cannot be separated when if it is then it is not Catholic. We do not teach the concept of solar scriptura where it is just God and self with community comes behind (a straight line)
Maybe you are not Catholic but if you are then you forgot the apostle creed and our catechism (not Sunday school catechism) which are the values and principle the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church has and teaches and constantly follows. Just to mention the church is refer too is not its buildings, its the INSTITUTION and its organization and its teachings. Come on why talk about buildings??
The church has well lived up to the teachings of Christ for your information that is why with God’s grace this institution has survived for 2009 years still strong and feared too buy some quaters, if not it would naturally not. You can say what you want about it but again go read up what Jesus said to Peter. Not just that one sentence but the whole chapter. I did not divorced Christianity in my daily living, i have just embraced and internalized it educated manner following the teachings of the church which is a wisest institution to follow about its teachings. Dont interpret actions of a few people and judge the whole teaching of the church It is foolish as well. You are generalizing the church and taking it as a whole therefore i am defending it as a whole to. One cannot aspect for perfection because the church is run by humans and of course logically there is bound to have a few ‘sesat’ people. so dont use this one two people to judge the whole church. (I am repeating this)
Jerry you have still not rest your case nor answer to the current situation which is the problem between the church and its TENANTS. Why? Cant give and answer because logically and technically speaking the church is right? Lets stick to this issue and not go elsewhere. Can you? It looks like you are taking this opportunity to critique the church rather then discuss about the tenants already. This is why problem don’t solve simply because people do not address the issue. Only paves way to dig, find, create actually more problems haha.
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The answer to the current situation i.e. the problem between the church and it’s tenants is for the Bishop to come down from his ivory tower to meet the residents and seek an amicable solution. The ball is in his court.
Was it the right thing for the Bishop to communicate with them via lawyers? Or should he have taken a more humane approach like coming down from “heaven” to meet them?
It looks like you are taking this opportunity to defend the many failings of the Catholic church today. Do you happen to be a Catholic priest?
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Your long comments sound very much like a Sunday mass sermon!
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hahaha!!!! No i am not. perhaps he should. Well u cant expect perfection u know, it is run by humans, neither you should condemn or judge based on some incident, the entire church. As much as the number of failures u can see there is also even more greatness in the church. Let us embrace that at the same time try to fix the problems. Perhaps this issue the Bishop has learn something and also all of us too, on how to address some types of issues. Lets not condemn anymore, both ways. U have rest your case. Peace
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How do you think Christ would have acted if he was faced with such a situation ?
Would he have sued for the land or would he instead reach out for the salvation of the souls of those who took advantage of the church ?
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Maybe we could take time to have a reflection from the Gospel:
Mark 12:40
“They take advantage of widows and rob them of their homes, and then make a show of saying long prayers. Their punishment will be all the worse!”.
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The tenants took advantage of the generosity of the church, a widow (does not earn money but survives on donations therefor ‘poor’), being able to live there for generations some for free and robbed the church land of its rights (the church home) claiming it for their own. The church has turned to its other cheek and gave them compensation which it can afford (Rm140,0000 or so in total – pls check) and said they would help them to relocate. They make show by saying they are very poor and got no where else to go and got no income etc etc (well many have kids, earn through pension and raking money from car parking in church compound, got ASTRO, well dressed and dont look malnourished – who’s poor???) They say their prayer to stay put on the church land, to hold the church in ransom so does the church too says its prayers to be able to provide them a decent way to leave and continue their life and help more people. Oh my! i guess they are going to get the worst punishment.
)
Thank you for this bible verse Jerry. (protestant, r u?
Bet one forgot then any bible verse can be interpreted differently. And a single person interpretation of it cannot be defined as correct (including mine) Further comments on interpretations by others, on the news – How arrogance divides people – in Anil’s website.
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How about posting some photos here to show how “rich” those tenants are ?
Be honest about what you take as God is watching.
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One other thing, if the church wanted the car park collections, they could have subcontract the car park out to some independent collectors.
The rent the tenants pay does not include the church car park, right ?
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greg,
All can see how you make an utter mockery of the gospel!
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I was making a point Jerry. Sadly u did not get it. Sadly u have prevailed to have a one track, narrow mind. There is always to sides of the same coin. It looks like you dwell only on a few lines of what i have said and hit on it instead of reading the whole story and trying to figure the point there. With such a mind it is difficult already to discuss further. With this basic lacking how are people going to trust your interpretation?? Perhaps of those who have a feather would flock with you. Perhaps you should read up the 1st story of Mark 12 and the followings ones as well and get some one else qualified to interpret it for you. Perhaps not of your own kind to get another perspective. Have a open mind. Peace
No need photos got video d
. go figure
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The only “rich building” shown in the video of the church compound is that of the church.
The body of Christ obviously has its priority wrong !
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greg,
It’s you who has a “one track, narrow mind”.
There is always two sides to the same coin and you only see your side of the story.
With such a narrow mind you are definitely not going to get to the truth of the matter.
While you prefer to use the Roman emperor Constantine as your guide, I prefer to use the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels as my guide.
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Now what?
After all the rights and wrongs..the problems… what’s the solution?
I would propose Bishop go back to the church to get its consent. Bishop, to get the approval of the church over the next step of action. To get the support of the whole church, to seek advice, feedback from the church, on both sides. This is not only a matter of right or wrong, it has already become a measurement of how a christian would deal with such a situation. All throughout my growing years I have heard the Bishop and many other leaders of the church remind us that being Christians meant a lot more than just doing right by the law. It meant many other spiritual measures.
I am in no position to preach. Let us just give our feedback constructively. If the people need to move out, let’s all come together to figure out how best to accommodate this.
Maybe….
If they are poor, get them registered somehow in the church’s books or the state’s welfare program. Then get them into a comfortable home somewhere else. Maybe even try to find them a job or involve them in the new development that we do not know much of. Maybe they can give tremendous valuable feedback with their history there. Let’s find a way where they can contribute back to the church and feel good about it in the process.
DO it the Christian way and the whole church will show her support.
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Please don’t just do it the Christian way.
It’s better if the leadership could do it Christ’s way.
The second greatest commandant decreed by Christ was “to love your neighbour as yourself.”
Everyone knows it’s difficult but the solution to this problem must be close to what Christ in his unfailing love would do.
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Hmm, all can see no creatively decisive decision has been cooked up yet.
Who knows, perchance it’s because the four deadly torchbearer spirits of Sisters Gaetau, Appolinaire and Gregoire and RM Mathilde Raclot have declined to go anywhere near the bewildering Bishop-entity.
The
GLB says the confused Bishop-entity should go sit down calmly somewhere to reflectively ponder meditatively for a holistically cogitative output.
Perchance good
God or kind 
Jesus will look down and give the confused Bishop-entity a helping hand by hurling forth a lightning strike righteous answer out of the blue yonder like one of Thor’s thunderbolts to gazonk the confounded Bishop-entity’s head…
WE SAY YEAH! AND NO TO ISA!
AND HARIS FOR AG & RPK FOR IGP! GOFOR DSAI FOR PM & LKS FOR DPM & KIND WAN AZIZAH FOR HOME MINISTER.
2009 Resolution: Seek out all garbage and recycle or dispose post haste for a healthier life and planet!
ADDENDUM: Protect coral reefs and save all the good fishies in the seas!
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