It appears that even in the US, things are beginning to change. First there was Jon Stewart taking on the business of self-defence and the one-sidedness of US officialdom especially in relation to the recent invasion of Gaza. Now, it’s the turn of ’60 Minutes’ over CBS…
Is the tide turning?
Says CBS in the synopsis of its documentary:
Getting a peace deal in the Middle East is such a priority to President Obama that his first foreign calls on his first day in office were to Arab and Israeli leaders. And on day two, the president made former Senator George Mitchell his special envoy for Middle East peace. Mr. Obama wants to shore up the ceasefire in Gaza, but a lasting peace really depends on the West Bank where Palestinians had hoped to create their state. The problem is, even before Israel invaded Gaza, a growing number of Israelis and Palestinians had concluded that peace between them was no longer possible, that history had passed it by. For peace to have a chance, Israel would have to withdraw from the West Bank, which would then become the Palestinian state.
It’s known as the “two-state” solution. But, while negotiations have been going on for 15 years, hundreds of thousands of Jewish settlers have moved in to occupy the West Bank. Palestinians say they can’t have a state with Israeli settlers all over it, which the settlers say is precisely the idea.
this is what you get fair media when you get the right people to be incharge …americans voted right for obama … we need to vote right for PR ….sack the BN … if we want to see any progress in this country …
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The US media has either been for OR against Israel. You know that Anil. No need to twist the picture. The left and far-right have always been against Israel. You know that, Anil. The thing is this: The settlements only occured when Israel was attacked (again) by Egypt and Jordan in 1967. The war gave Israel the opportunity to (re)gain West Bank and Gaza, which prior to that it had no intention of “occupying” save for the whole of Jerusalem for obvious symbolic and historical reasons. Jordan no longer claim administrative ties to West Bank. The emergence of a Palestinian “liberation” movement only dates back to the 1960s under Nasser. Little wonder then that Arafat was an Egyptian.
Palestine was never a country in any way. The opportunity did come in 1947 under the sponsorship of the UN. Look also at the Partition of India (1947), Anil. How much bloodshed did that caused. But in typical fashion, the opportunity was passed up. That Partition, mind you, was AFTER the partition of 80 percent of the Mandate Palestine into Jordan. So, Palestinians have a country already – Jordan.
So, the settlements are on a land which was never legally a country of its own. Although there was a plan to make it a part of a sovereign nation, the opportunity was outrightly rejected BUT accepted by Israel and not only that, the rejection was accompanied by WAR.
Samaria was originally part of historic Israel which existed for thousands of years. But the State of Israel is willing (again) to co-exist with a Palestinian nation – the two-state solution (revived). But the precise details of the solution must involved the consent of both parties – Israel as a sovereign nation and the Palestinian Authority as the interim self-governing administration. Based on history and international law, Israel has the right to decide the boundaries of the new Palestinian state even as it, i.e. Israel assumes co-responsibility for the formation of a viable Palestinian state!
That settlements would be forcibly removed as in Gaza will happen. But the two-state solution can only happen when there is BOTH a SECURE Israel alongside a VIABLE Palestinian state. This is the whole point – settlements OR no settlements.
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Jason, just to clairfy some history for you. Israel was not attacked in 1967. It launched a preemptive strike that began the 6 day war. As for the idea of a Palestinian state being rejected and accepted by Israel instead, again that information is incorrect. The land was orginally promised to create a Palestinian nation, than at the sametime was also promised to Israel in the Balfour Declaration of 1917 which stated “His majestys governement view with favour the establishement in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people….”. So since you say there was no Palestine (which is again incorrect), according to Britian which promised one land to two different people, there was indeed a Palestinian nation (which is clearly stated in teh Balfour Dec).
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thanks for the history jason … it’s important that we all acknowledge what really happened and opportunity missed for the formation of the palestinian state than to wrongly support either party for sake of Islam or Christianity or Zionism or Terrorism …
I think in today’s conflict, it’s important to understand the historical aspect of what happened before we say Israel is killing islam or islam is terrorising christians …
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i bet jason loh is a jewish man masquerading as a malaysian rock star…
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Mustakim says everything there is about the pro-Palestinian cause. I am a Chinese Christian working for University of Malaya. Listen carefully, I bet you your very own life that you would never ever want to live under Hamas or Taliban, however you may rant and rave about Israel.
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Jason has just rewritten history.
Perhaps its time for him to go back to school on this.
For starters, he can google the origins of Palestine, the jewish problem in Europe during hitler’s reign and after WW2, the British solution to cleanse Europe of the jewish problem through Balfour, the several UN resolutions, the role of the AIPAC in US Congressional matters, the role of the arab dictatorships in Saudi arabia and egypt vis-a-vis the palestinian refugee problem, the story of george habash, the PFLP and the PLF, the ideology of zionism etc…
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing …and free access to blogs in which fiction can masquerade as fact is an even more dangerous thing..
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If you want to talk about Google, go and look up at Wikipedia. Wikipedia has no axe to grind, as they say. And point out where Wikipedia and I disagree. No point talking about vague generalities.
Look up on the Peel Commission, Balfour Declaration, British Mandate of Palestine, UN Partition of 1947, the Arab-Israeli War of 1948, the Wars of 1956, 1967 and 1973. Better, go back to the Ottoman Empire. Better still, go back to BEFORE the Ottoman Empire.
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Hmmm… So in the same way, Samraj, the Holocust never happened. It is all a fabrication of Jason.
Samraj, you are right, only thing I will say is your biased and skewed knowledge is also a dangerous thing.
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Jason, I see that you do not understand muslim teachings and objectives. Neither do you know about Hamas nor Taliban except from the distorted news controlled by some people. Try to get news and views from true muslims who have had first hand experience with them.
Listen carefully. Please do not talk about things that you do not know nor understand in great detail, as if you are an expert. As it will only make you… look like an uneducated person on the subject.
And you are making it even worst when you say you are working for UM. Our poor university students! And people wonder about the quality…
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Jon Stewart and many ‘liberals’ news like PBS (Public Broadcasting Service – Channel 13), have over the years been impartial on their reporting of the Palestine-Israel Conflict.
Its just that we don’t see these information.
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Hamdi, So there is another problem here. Please do differentiate between Religion, race and language. All Palestinians are not Muslims and all muslims are not Arabs, and All Arabs are not Muslims. WHy are you making this a religious issue?
So, you are saying it is okay to throw acid on the faces of young girls who go to school in Kabul? This was reported by Al-Jazeera and not the Pro-Western media. It was also reported over TV3.
It was reported in Al-Jazeera that Even Saudi Arabia, Eygpt and Jordan were very uncomfortable with Hamas operating in their backyard. That is why for 9 days there was total silence from these countries when Israel started the Gaza attack.
Since you have said you have 1st hand experience with Taliban and Hamas, (are you) a Taliban who throw acid at the face of young girls who try to get a good education?
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Hamdi, listen very carefully … stay here, don’t go away listen … now, you must recognise that neither you nor your fellow Muslims would want to live under Hamas or the Taliban. Don’t side-step the issue. Self-denial is perhaps the worst thing for you to commit, in relation to the problem afflicting the Palestinians. You want to see the Palestinians succeed, stop supporting the terrorists. There can never be peace when the aim is the destruction of the State of Israel. Think, not emote. Both sides have their share of responsibility. Not one side. Remember, the world is not against Islam. Islam’s worst enemies are the terrorists themselves. Would you want live under Jemaah Islamiah? So, don’t delude yourself that you’re doing the Palestinians a favour by supporting terrorists …
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Terrorism? Terrorists? Killing babies from the air is not terrorism? Using banned chemicals on people is not terrorism? Taking over your home and land by force is not terrorism? Forcing people to dig tunnels to bring in daily necessities is not terrorism?
Pray tell me Jason, which terrorists should we NOT support? Those who have been labeled as terrorists by the pro-occupation camp or those similarly labeled by ones in the occupied territories?
Oh yes, about the Holocaust, (please note the spelling Sam) The six million number bandied about by some jews and their sympathizers “cannot be independently verified”. (That is he same cynical expression used by CNN and the israelis when reporting/commenting on the number of palestinian deaths in Gaza. So any argument that includes branded words like the holocaust must also be subject to scrutiny. Did the germans kill jews? Of course they did …just as the jews are now killing the palestinians. Is one killing more justifiable than the other? Should the palestinians now brand the violence done to them and then use it strategically to create an image of a long-suffering, persecuted race?
So once again, the problem is this: who you choose to believe/support depends very much on your world view, your personal biases regarding the use of violence, depth and breadth of knowledge, your religious upbringing, your ethical standards & values, the company you keep… well, you get the picture.
We have opinions; we are trading opinions and opinions are not truth.
Recognize that and we can continue to enjoy trading (sans ad hominum sniping or frothing in the mouth).
But if you are starting with the premise that you have the unvarnished truth/ or are in possession of the latest word from god (whatever that is), then this exchange is over for me. I am off the trading floor.
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Which terrorists you should not support? All of them. Period. Why support terror in the first place? Doesn’t Mumbai ring any bell to you?
Why listen to lies about Israel and ignore the oppression of Hamas against their own people? Are surgical strikes specifically targeted at terrorists hiding – alongside their weaponry (you guess it, including rockets) – in residential buildings, mosques, schools, zoos, you name it every single place where civilians or non-combatants terrorism? Is the act of bombing a targeted area with leaflets warning residents there to flee terrorism? Was the whole of Gaza bombed? Was Gaza City carpet-bombed or leveled? Is the use of civilians as human shields ever justified?
If you still think these are all “opinions”, then be consistent and say to yourself that the Mumbai massacre is not really a massacre. Who cares about it in the first place? I put it to you that if you hold to that, then you are being consistent in your “philosophy” whatever that is.
Now, if you want to talk about my religion, then you must understand that morality is the common ownership of all religions. There is no higher morality which differentiates one religion from the other. The Law (basic morality) applies to all – whether you are Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Animist, etc. etc. The Law may not be enforced in its purity or entirety. It does not matter, for the purposes of regulating society, curbing outward evil, etc. it is enough that the Law fulfils that role through the State. Thus, a Christian is no more holier than a non-Christian in this world. A non-Christian can and must be commended for doing good works, and recognised that he/she does more good works than Christians most of the time or at equal times. The Law then is to remind us to be truly human, something that terrorists are not.
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Jason Loh: “The US media has either been for OR against Israel. You know that Anil. No need to twist the picture. ”
Al’Nil knows alright but he simply has to do that for reasons best known to himself.
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It’s almost inevitable that Christians will support Israel – and the USA – without question.
If the Europeans wanted the Jews to have a homeland they should have found some place in Europe for them. Instead the Jews are shoe-horned into the Middle East to be a “watchdog” for the West. When the Muslims objected, they are “denying Israel’s right to exist”! Therefore, Hamas, which was democratically chosen by the Gazans to be their representative is immediately labeled a “terrorist” organisation and nobody is allowed to speak to them. Instead all financial aid is cut and Israel starts a suffocating blockade on Gaza. So who took the first step to war? Not Hamas.
The US called North Korea a terrorist state but is now talking face-to-face at the same table. So why can’t Israel talk to Hamas? Too humiliating perhaps? Is Israel too powerful now to make compromises with a puny neighbour it treats with contempt? Or perhaps (certain) nutty Christians in the USA want Israel to conquer Gaza to fulfill Biblical prophesy and speed up Armageddon?
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Are surgical strikes specifically targeted at terrorists hiding – alongside their weaponry (you guess it, including rockets) – in residential buildings, mosques, schools, zoos, you name it every single place where civilians or non-combatants terrorism? Is the act of bombing a targeted area with leaflets warning residents there to flee terrorism?
If, in your opinion, the above which you cite, are not acts of terrorism, we understand the word differently. But please don’t use the term “surgical strikes” to justify mass murder. There is nothing surgical about killing innocents huddled together in ghettos just as there is nothing surgical when a suicide bomber kills a couple of soldiers and a few other civilians who happen to be nearby.
It is not the intent you profess, but what you actually do. The americans coined the term ‘collateral damage’ in Vietnam to ease their conscience and justify the killing of women and children. ‘Sorry, we were not intending to kill them you know, but these things happen. But heck why are there so many yellow skinned ones running around these parts; don’t they know a war is going on?”
When the Nazis killed the jews, they too did not view that as genocide. In their minds, it was simply done to remove a social problem – to rid the land of the ‘filth’. It was only the jews who were crying ‘bloody murder’. (and for goodness sake, why didn’t they flee? They, like the hapless palestinians today, had nowhere to flee)
“Why listen to lies about Israel and ignore the oppression of Hamas against their own people?”
Why listen to lies about Hamas and ignore the objections of thousands of jews in israel and elsewhere who have categorically stated their opposition to the killing of civilians by the zionist regime?
Hamas, if you care to recall, was democratically elected by palestinians in a free and fair election scrutinized by international observers. They have, by all accounts, have done as much as they could to improve the lot of their people… severely constrained of course by the israeli blockade, the freezing of funds raised by them, the crippling sanctions imposed by the americans etc) And right from the start, the zionist media in collaboration with right wing american channels like Fox News, started a deliberate and systematic campaign to demonize them…
The zionist media campaign to sanitize the massacre could have been more effective save for one thing…these days with the proliferation of bloggers, video cameras and phones, the incriminating evidence of bloodied bodies, scatter bombs, white phosphorus, limbs sticking out the rubble and wailing mothers reach all corners of the globe and underscore the evil perpetrated in the name of zion and “national defense”.
Good night. See you all sometime in the months ahead.
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Jason, just read the book ‘Palestine Peace Not Apartheid’ by former US president Jimmy Carter, try to understand what ‘forces’ him to write that book, and look at what happened to him after publishing that book, and all these sum up the state of Mid-East politics in the US and the media control and influence of the Israeli interest groups.
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