Comment posted Church arson attacks: Cooler heads must prevail by wira.
Dear K.
1. The Police do not answer to the CM. Period.
If they do, then PDRM would not have stopped all the candle light vigils which were supported by PR.
Please argue with facts and not lies.
PR states are undermined by federal powers, in the withholding of federal monies to the state. Those monies are instead channeled through federal agencies in the state.
It is bad to be robbed of a rightful role.
It is even worse to be accused of not functioning well … after they usurped your responsibility.
2. So you weren’t reading the news on how Utusan fanned racial and religious sentiments. No wonder you are writing funny stuffs. Do a google on Awang Selamat to refresh your memory.
3. You must be blind in not being able to see the stance of PAS and PKR. Zul Nordin had been a dissenter within PKR all this while and you choose to make him official voice of PR. We might as well call … Suhaimi the official voice of UMNO.
4. Ku Li is probably the only courageous voice of righteousness and reason left in UMNO. Ignore him at your peril. If UMNO had not been rash in wanting to be a populist in this instead of being statesman like, following Islamic principles/practices and adhering to the federal constitution, all this would not have happened.
wira also commented
- To Malaysians of every faith including Atheists and Agnostics.
“First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out. – Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) “ - Dear Gerakan K.
1. Let’s recognise that security and safety are the responsibilities of the federal government. The IGP reports to the Home Minister who, in turn, reports to the PM.
2. If there is an increase in crime rate in Penang, you still want to blame Lim GE? Can! First change the constitution and get the CPO to report to Lim GE.
3. Where were you when Utusan fanned emotions on behalf of your big brother UMNO?
4. Note the plural stand taken by Muslim leaders in PAS and PKR. If Utusan had acted responsibly and adopted the stand of PAS and PKR (which also happens to be the universal stand of global Muslims), don’t you think the situation would not have gone over the brink?
5. Go read Tengku Razaleigh criticism of Najib over this issue. No single person had put it better.
6. I have stated my theory.
Why don’t you tell us yours since you too suspect a conspiracy?
7. How to protect the churches? Note that all incidents so far happened in KL and Selangor and it is not too far fetched to suggest that this is probably the work of a single team or group. I would certainly advise churches to install CCTV or webcams at all approaches to their church. Get the help of the neighbourhood in this. The proliferation of CCTV/Webcams in Taiwan helped solve many difficult crimes there. It also helps to remain vigilant at all times.
8. Start the Muslim/Catholic interfaith dialog. - Dear Gerakan K,
By what figment of imagination you see similarity, I don’t know.
The police does not report to the state government but to Najib’s government.
If there is a crime increase in this state, you want to blame that on the CM ?How to reason with you when you don’t even know who controls what.
- Dear Gerakan K.
It’s hopeless to reason with you.
If you want to find political friends sharing your thoughts, go comment in UMNO blogs.
They love Gerakan folks like you. - This is my theory.
The firebombing of churches in KL/PJ had altered the situation in that it had gone over the brim instead of just at the brim if UMNO strategists were to have it to maximise the advantage they get over Muslim leaders in PR.
That is probably the reason why Hishamuddin was putting on the brakes at the last minute during a press conference yesterday. His position apparently changed.
Public opinion after the torching of the Metro Tabernacle Assembly of God early this morning swarmed those strategists as they beat a hasty retreat.
Instead of expecting crowds in excess of several thousands literally to shore up support for UMNO, only a handful turned up for the demonstrations after the Friday service today.
I feel the torching of a church jerked many to reality because Malaysians are basically peace loving folks with a job and a home to return to every day.
This is not Pakistan, Somalia nor Afganistan.
This is Malaysia, truly Asia.Please continue to pray for God’s intervention in this.
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Majority wins?In Perak, they (enticed) 3 frogs over and got their majority regardless of the principle why, in the first place, there was an election to choose a government.
Some majority, some doctor, some government.
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iron, i think sometimes our “too” enthusiasm about something, in particular, religion matters, can make us lose sight of more important issue, that is, peace and harmony.
Didnt the Bible teach us to love our neighbour? Neighbour means all humankind, irrespective of race and colour and religion.
For me, though am a Christian, but i really do not see the need to fight over this Allah thing. For i believe, things that pertaining to God, it is wise to leave it to God, unless you think otherwise, He is not capable of handling.
We must not feel so insecured in the religion that we trust and believe. A true religion cannot be threatened.
nkkhoo was just trying to help by suggesting a win win situation for both sides. That is, the East Malaysians can continue to use the word Allah since they have been using it all this while, and the West Malaysians dont use it anymore.
nkkhoo didnt say, Christians cannot use the word Allah at all. Right? So, why are u jumping, iron?
Indeed, i agree with nkkhoo, it is silly to fight over the name of God. To me, it is belittling God.
The government indeed is not right to confiscate the Christian literatures sold in the bookstores with the word Allah. Because the books were printed much earlier.
Is there any Act that says Non Muslims cannot use the word Allah?
If the UMNO government didnt want us to use the word Allah, we can call our Creator as heavenly Father or Abba Father, isnt that sound dearer? Why must we insist that we have to call our God, the Creator as Allah. I always call HIM as God or Father in my prayer.
If u must insist and call God as Allah, then, you can do it privately, the UMNO people, i believe,they wont come and arrest you.
Note: I said UMNO here because PM Najib said he cant do anything
to stop the protest while PKR stopped his people to
participate in the protest and PAS, KhalidSamad quoted the
AlQoran to say that Non Muslims are not forbid to use the
name Allah. Mind you, it is the UMNO Minister who
disagreed with the High Court Judgment and filed an
appeal.
So, those who have eyes, esp our brethren in the East
Malaysia, wake up now and cast a vote against BN in
the next GE, do yourself a favour.
Gerakan K & Iron
Even if nkkhoo is not a Christian he has the right to tell Christian and others whether they have the right use the word Allah or not as long as what he is doing or trying to interpret is within the context of the law and judiciary. The recent hight court ruling was by a Chinese judge who may or may not be a Christian but her verdict stem from within the context of the law……
I agree with Mahathir that law cannot solve religion related issue. There is no right or wrong answer for religious matters, all depending on how you interpret them.
Yang,
You are right! Herald publication is contesting the case based upon the constituition & rule of law. We need to have a yardstick to justify our claim. I disagree with Khoo & even Mahathir. If one uses moslem’s point of view, ah so one agree with France’s verdict on hijab’s issue.
Once upon a time, moslems & christians called each other infidels & thus the crusade. Finally, Saladin knew that the best way is a compromise. Safe passage of pilgramage in Jerusalem by Jews & Christians. All 3 religions use Allah as God.
Khoo,
I respect your opinion but however, argument must be based on precedents, historical facts, constituition & rule of law.
Mahathir has lost the word of war over LKY over the water issue over rule of law. Mahathir so humiliated over the disclosure of letters but then again Rule of Law still stands paramount
Frankly, I doubt you know what is historical fact before you challenge me or Mahathir on this matter.
If you read (I believe you have never read the water agreement yourself) water agreement with Singapore, Mahathir is right in the water issue.
Note: I still keep the PDF copy downloaded from Singapore government website.
In any country believe the rule of law will know the meaning of “AFTER” used in the water agreement. Malaysia has absolute legal right to review water tariff AFTER 20 years and any dispute has to be settled in Johor court.
BN government is too soft and give in too much to LKY on water issue.
Isn’t the obvious and best solution for the Home Ministry to drop its Appeal? What problem was there before the attempted Allah ban, or was it purely ‘initiative’ by the Home Ministry?
http://www.dailyexpress.com.my/news.cfm?NewsID=70017
I do not see proposal from JP is a compromise, this is a win-lose solution.
Malaysia will be in anarchy if we submit to threats from a few … extremists who burnt down churches, mosques or temples or my homes.
You can argue and debate until the cows come home (no pun intended) but Mahatir’s right and this has to be settled based on negotiations and now via the legal process.
Even someone wins in the court, the nation loses when this issue becomes emotional and resorts to some stupid acts to vent their anger.
Dear K.
1. The Police do not answer to the CM. Period.
If they do, then PDRM would not have stopped all the candle light vigils which were supported by PR.
Please argue with facts and not lies.
PR states are undermined by federal powers, in the withholding of federal monies to the state. Those monies are instead channeled through federal agencies in the state.
It is bad to be robbed of a rightful role.
It is even worse to be accused of not functioning well … after they usurped your responsibility.
2. So you weren’t reading the news on how Utusan fanned racial and religious sentiments. No wonder you are writing funny stuffs. Do a google on Awang Selamat to refresh your memory.
3. You must be blind in not being able to see the stance of PAS and PKR. Zul Nordin had been a dissenter within PKR all this while and you choose to make him official voice of PR. We might as well call … Suhaimi the official voice of UMNO.
4. Ku Li is probably the only courageous voice of righteousness and reason left in UMNO. Ignore him at your peril. If UMNO had not been rash in wanting to be a populist in this instead of being statesman like, following Islamic principles/practices and adhering to the federal constitution, all this would not have happened.
Hi all,
Like i tell u b4 the main concern of the muslim is the miss used of word “ALLAH”. Thats true that God do not need us to defend Him. But in the issue of “Akidah” of Muslims which is it differentiate between Islam and other religions that all of u not really understand on why the muslims totally not agree when other religions using the word of “ALLAH”. I personally not agree and i really think that other muslims agree with me about tourching the church is a evil behaviour. As our in religion “ISLAM” we also probihited for doing such destruction to other religion worships place. If the behaviour done by my other muslims brothers, I personally seek for all christians forgiveness but in the same time I still not agree if the word of “ALLAH” been used by others just because I personally dont want that the name of My ALMIGHTY God, ALLAH be manipulate and miss used by others.
thanks all
BN has failed the people after over 50 years of power. This has to change. Vote Pakatan for a better future.
Muet, MP khalid Samad (PAS) in his blog said that the AlQoran did not forbid the use of Allah by non Muslim.
Isnt that tell that it is all right when non Muslims refer to the Creator as Allah as well?
Afterall these people, the Christians they didnt misuse it right? They are referring the Creator their God as Allah as well. Indeed, the fact is, the Christians and Muslims believe in the same one God, the Creator.
You see, a lot of people like to curse in Jesus name, i dont know why but the Christian didnt stone them.
If that person is my frd i will explain to him/her nicely not to do it but if he/she is a stranger, i will either leave it or ask God to forgive that person because indeed they do not know it is a sin to curse in Jesus’s name.
All this while, some Christians have been referring God as Allah and there isnt any problem at all.
Why suddenly, during Badawi’s tenure as PM, the issue was picked up and now worst, some quarter of people sensualise it.
Actually, i view it as more of a political issue than religion.
Unfortunately, some people you may call them extremists or lack of knowledge or just plain shallow in their thinking, or i call them unthinking people, they are tricked into it… that is why the burning of churches.
As for me,i will blame the govertnment of the day for stirring the emotion of the Malay people.
Honestly, if you go and ask these leaders, i believe they have the education and knowledge to tell you that religion is a v personal thing between the people and their Maker but they have to do the opposite because they (appear to) have an agenda, that is, they want the lost votes back from the Malays who supported Pakatan in the last GE.
Hi my fren KEE,
As the person who you refering is the one who really politician. And the view that he try to show mainly to manupulate this issue for the politic sack. Please my fren, you may open to the malay news paper, in there they focusly talk about the using of word of “ALLAH” for other.
For your information, ALLAH for Islam only ONE. And the trinity concept of god that in Christian is totally different compared to Islam. That y as i tell all of u be4, the concept of “AKIDAH” you not really understand. What we as muslims belief are totally different what the christians belief and u, because of u are not muslims so u cannot see what actually we try to deffence.
If Islam and Christian are same, why there are difference in the practical and in spritiual in both religion? We as muslims only want to make sure that our future children not confuse and change their belief only because the think that ISLAM = Christian where in the reality both of religions are different at all.
Might b for other religions they not so sensitive when others play with their religions but for us, Muslims that are one of our responsibility to ALLAH to make sure that HIS religions ISLAM and HIS name ALLAH not be played and miss used by people.
Or might be if you want we may meet and I explain to you the concept of Islam. Might b from that u may tell to other fren so the will not miss understand about Islam and muslims in future or you may read this..
http://www.utusan.com.my/utusan/info.asp?y=2010&dt=0112&pub=Utusan_Malaysia&sec=Bicara_Agama&pg=ba_01.htm
see u in next page, bye