Comments on: “Dr Death” drops bombshell at Teoh inquest http://anilnetto.com/governance/accountability/dr-death-testifies-in-teoh-inquest/ Let justice flow like a mighty river Thu, 24 May 2012 17:09:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: David Kallenbach http://anilnetto.com/governance/accountability/dr-death-testifies-in-teoh-inquest/comment-page-5/#comment-111605 David Kallenbach Tue, 29 Mar 2011 07:58:56 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=15913#comment-111605 Dr. Pornthip's claims to having performed over 10,000 autopsies requires further close scrutiny given her propensity to ... exaggerate (such as her admission to forcing a second autopsy by (allegedly) lying to the authorities). At 52 it simply means she has without having a holiday for the past 27 years and say 4 months udnertaken an autopsy a day. That would mean that Dr. Pornthip was actively conducting autopsies at the rate of one a day (no holidays) since the age of 25. There is something about this woman that needs more than just closer examination.... Dr. Pornthip’s claims to having performed over 10,000 autopsies requires further close scrutiny given her propensity to … exaggerate (such as her admission to forcing a second autopsy by (allegedly) lying to the authorities).

At 52 it simply means she has without having a holiday for the past 27 years and say 4 months udnertaken an autopsy a day. That would mean that Dr. Pornthip was actively conducting autopsies at the rate of one a day (no holidays) since the age of 25.

There is something about this woman that needs more than just closer examination….

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]]> By: loganathan http://anilnetto.com/governance/accountability/dr-death-testifies-in-teoh-inquest/comment-page-5/#comment-57590 loganathan Tue, 24 Aug 2010 05:03:14 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=15913#comment-57590 All same lah semua cover up(?) All same lah semua cover up(?)

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]]> By: FEDUP http://anilnetto.com/governance/accountability/dr-death-testifies-in-teoh-inquest/comment-page-5/#comment-34055 FEDUP Wed, 28 Oct 2009 05:40:29 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=15913#comment-34055 SURE TBH BOLEH PAKAI S`GOR GOVERMENT MONEY LA, KBP FOLKS NOT WORTH N TAK PAYAH USE DUIT GOVERMENT PENANG. ... PR PUN SAMA BN PUTRA. SURE TBH BOLEH PAKAI S`GOR GOVERMENT MONEY LA, KBP FOLKS NOT WORTH N TAK PAYAH USE DUIT GOVERMENT PENANG. … PR PUN SAMA BN PUTRA.

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]]> By: wwl http://anilnetto.com/governance/accountability/dr-death-testifies-in-teoh-inquest/comment-page-5/#comment-34040 wwl Wed, 28 Oct 2009 02:53:14 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=15913#comment-34040 its the price to pay to set things straight since banyak-banyak ppl already serong. the tbh case is of national concern for the obvious fact that it questions the accountability of the ppl at MACC and the Govt. The selangor govt got involved because it happened in .................... duh. we are gladly picking up the tab. u dont wanna go to MACC for late nite investigations now, do you, Mr/Ms K? its the price to pay to set things straight since banyak-banyak ppl already serong.
the tbh case is of national concern for the obvious fact that it questions the accountability of the ppl at MACC and the Govt.
The selangor govt got involved because it happened in ……………….. duh.
we are gladly picking up the tab.
u dont wanna go to MACC for late nite investigations now, do you, Mr/Ms K?

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]]> By: K http://anilnetto.com/governance/accountability/dr-death-testifies-in-teoh-inquest/comment-page-5/#comment-33978 K Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:37:41 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=15913#comment-33978 Folks I hear that the Selangor govt is (allegedly) paying her ... for her services. I wonder if the Selangor PR govt in the interest of transparency will confirm this fact as this involve public funds. I am not against employing of foreign experts or paying them what they worth but paying someone (an) exhorbitant amount could possibly lead to accusations that the expert being made to take a stance to help her paymaster. I think the charges for an autopsy (could) be much heftier and hope this too would be made public since we the rakyat (could be) picking up the tab. Folks I hear that the Selangor govt is (allegedly) paying her … for her services. I wonder if the Selangor PR govt in the interest of transparency will confirm this fact as this involve public funds.

I am not against employing of foreign experts or paying them what they worth but paying someone (an) exhorbitant amount could possibly lead to accusations that the expert being made to take a stance to help her paymaster.

I think the charges for an autopsy (could) be much heftier and hope this too would be made public since we the rakyat (could be) picking up the tab.

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]]> By: K http://anilnetto.com/governance/accountability/dr-death-testifies-in-teoh-inquest/comment-page-4/#comment-33977 K Mon, 26 Oct 2009 09:28:47 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=15913#comment-33977 Dear layman I think you are missing the point here. Let me lay out the key issues : 1. Dr PR cannot make a guess at 80% level based purely on the documents and photos alone especially when this new theory is completely at odd with 2 other pathologists. A responsible pathologist would have made more physical analysis and investigation to support this new theory. 2. Dr PR didnt provide any emprical data on how this "80%" confidence level was arrived at. 3. The evidences and proofs for homicide cited by Dr PR were so simple that any pathologists would have easily discovered them in a routine autopsy. 4. If Dr PR's charges were true, then why there were no corroborating evidences ? Yes, there are many Malaysians readily accept Dr PR's wild guesstimate even without a shred of evidence and logical arguments. This sadly is a damning reflection of Malaysians' proclivity to allow their political allegiance rather than facts and logic to dictate their thinking process. These people are highly skeptical of the professionalism and impartiality of the first 2 pathologists while accepting blindly the integrity of the Thai one. In my view, Dr PR fatally compromised her credibility and professionalism when she made this wild, speculative accusations. In my mind, only a bomoh and certainly not a pathologist, would speak with "80% confidence level" when he/she has limited access to the data and evidence. Dr PR, unlike many people here would like to beleive, is not universally acclaimed even in Thailand. My Thai friends tell me that Dr PR's reputation is higher among the foreign press than locally as she was known to be partial to sensation and media exposure rather than cold, hard professionalism in tackling her cases. Her self proclaimed more than 10,000 autopsies carried out was also disputed. A basic calculation would show that this is impossible even she works 24/7/ 365 days all her working career. She is said to be much more familiar with drowning cases than real investigative ones. But having said that I also would like to see her doing the autopsy and provide the evidence to support her claim of homocide. I will gladly accept her findings if she can furnish the necessary data and proofs. Dear layman

I think you are missing the point here. Let me lay out the key issues :

1. Dr PR cannot make a guess at 80% level based purely on the documents and photos alone especially when this new theory is completely at odd with 2 other pathologists. A responsible pathologist would have made more physical analysis and investigation to support this new theory.

2. Dr PR didnt provide any emprical data on how this “80%” confidence level was arrived at.

3. The evidences and proofs for homicide cited by Dr PR were so simple that any pathologists would have easily discovered them in a routine autopsy.

4. If Dr PR’s charges were true, then why there were no corroborating evidences ?

Yes, there are many Malaysians readily accept Dr PR’s wild guesstimate even without a shred of evidence and logical arguments. This sadly is a damning reflection of Malaysians’ proclivity to allow their political allegiance rather than facts and logic to dictate their thinking process.

These people are highly skeptical of the professionalism and impartiality of the first 2 pathologists while accepting blindly the integrity of the Thai one.

In my view, Dr PR fatally compromised her credibility and professionalism when she made this wild, speculative accusations. In my mind, only a bomoh and certainly not a pathologist, would speak with “80% confidence level” when he/she has limited access to the data and evidence.

Dr PR, unlike many people here would like to beleive, is not universally acclaimed even in Thailand. My Thai friends tell me that Dr PR’s reputation is higher among the foreign press than locally as she was known to be partial to sensation and media exposure rather than cold, hard professionalism in tackling her cases.

Her self proclaimed more than 10,000 autopsies carried out was also disputed. A basic calculation would show that this is impossible even she works 24/7/ 365 days all her working career.

She is said to be much more familiar with drowning cases than real investigative ones.

But having said that I also would like to see her doing the autopsy and provide the evidence to support her claim of homocide. I will gladly accept her findings if she can furnish the necessary data and proofs.

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]]> By: layman http://anilnetto.com/governance/accountability/dr-death-testifies-in-teoh-inquest/comment-page-4/#comment-33972 layman Mon, 26 Oct 2009 05:24:05 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=15913#comment-33972 I don't see any accusations with Dr Death's statement. I don't know much about autopsy, but I don't think it's wrong to draw an inference from reports. It's just one of the many phases of investigation isn't it? If she has conducted an autopsy, visited the crime seen, and possess all empirical data (K's criteria), it doesn't have to be 80% anymore isn't it? Come on, it's just one of the many phases of investigation isn't it? Even doctors provide provisional diagnoses based on the patients' history before he/she arrives at the definite diagnosis after physical examination and lab investigations. According to K, 'any trauma inflicted by causes other than the fall would have been picked up by the pathologists'. I totally agree with him. But don't you see it K, that's the big joke people are laughing about! Is it that difficult to differentiate a death from fall or causes other that fall?! That's what we Malaysian laymen are laughing about from the beginning. That's why we are skeptic. I wonder is K with us out here all this while, or is he inside somewhere? I don’t see any accusations with Dr Death’s statement. I don’t know much about autopsy, but I don’t think it’s wrong to draw an inference from reports. It’s just one of the many phases of investigation isn’t it? If she has conducted an autopsy, visited the crime seen, and possess all empirical data (K’s criteria), it doesn’t have to be 80% anymore isn’t it? Come on, it’s just one of the many phases of investigation isn’t it? Even doctors provide provisional diagnoses based on the patients’ history before he/she arrives at the definite diagnosis after physical examination and lab investigations. According to K, ‘any trauma inflicted by causes other than the fall would have been picked up by the pathologists’. I totally agree with him. But don’t you see it K, that’s the big joke people are laughing about! Is it that difficult to differentiate a death from fall or causes other that fall?! That’s what we Malaysian laymen are laughing about from the beginning. That’s why we are skeptic. I wonder is K with us out here all this while, or is he inside somewhere?

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]]> By: K http://anilnetto.com/governance/accountability/dr-death-testifies-in-teoh-inquest/comment-page-4/#comment-33968 K Mon, 26 Oct 2009 03:14:59 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=15913#comment-33968 Morning Dew @ 11.05pm The "facts" that you have presented is not something new but been presented in some other blogs that I have seen. Let me re-state that I am not saying this is not a homicide or suicide. All I am saying is that without a 2nd autopsy and further analysis, Dr PR has way of making such claims. The arguments of Dr PR are deeply flawed and her predictions are unprofessional since she did not : 1. conduct an autopsy 2. visit the scene of crime 3. speak to the 2 pathologists 4. there is absolutely no empirical base /data to support her "80%" confidence level I am no expert but even I can see the flaw in her argument. Let's look at one by one. She claimed that there was sign of strangulation but she couldn't point it out in the picture and later claimed that she did not have all the document. If there has been a strangulation, then it would certainly leave marks and other side effects on the throat and also in the blood. And there would certainly other signs of struggle and also DNA. Blunt trauma on the head. This is another amateurish work by Dr PR since any trauma inflicted by causes other than the fall would have been picked up by the pathologists. This is so elementary. Again, an attack on the head would lead to many other physical symtoms that easy to pick up. Anal tear. Again, if this was caused by factors other than the fall, the pathologist would have seen it easily. Heck, even layperson would able to detect this. Again, this would also cause other physical symptoms. It is quite easy to see what she's trying to do. Since she's acting on behalf of Selangor PR govt (and obviously the DAP), she (could be) trying to pick up some signs and make wild, speculative and highly sensational accusations. I do hope that she gets to exhume the body and perform an autopsy so that she will be forced to justify her wild accusations. And that would be fun. Morning Dew, I am all for a heathly debate and I do hope personal attacks can be excluded from this. My stand on this issue is, let the justice dictated by truth and facts and not wild accusations that have no basis. Until and unless Dr Death produces facts to support her "finds", the report of the first two pathologists must stand. For me, I keep an open mind until Dr Death can convince me other wise. Morning Dew @ 11.05pm

The “facts” that you have presented is not something new but been presented in some other blogs that I have seen.

Let me re-state that I am not saying this is not a homicide or suicide. All I am saying is that without a 2nd autopsy and further analysis, Dr PR has way of making such claims.

The arguments of Dr PR are deeply flawed and her predictions are unprofessional since she did not :

1. conduct an autopsy
2. visit the scene of crime
3. speak to the 2 pathologists
4. there is absolutely no empirical base /data to support her “80%” confidence level

I am no expert but even I can see the flaw in her argument. Let’s look at one by one.

She claimed that there was sign of strangulation but she couldn’t point it out in the picture and later claimed that she did not have all the document. If there has been a strangulation, then it would certainly leave marks and other side effects on the throat and also in the blood. And there would certainly other signs of struggle and also DNA.

Blunt trauma on the head. This is another amateurish work by Dr PR since any trauma inflicted by causes other than the fall would have been picked up by the pathologists. This is so elementary. Again, an attack on the head would lead to many other physical symtoms that easy to pick up.

Anal tear. Again, if this was caused by factors other than the fall, the pathologist would have seen it easily. Heck, even layperson would able to detect this. Again, this would also cause other physical symptoms.

It is quite easy to see what she’s trying to do. Since she’s acting on behalf of Selangor PR govt (and obviously the DAP), she (could be) trying to pick up some signs and make wild, speculative and highly sensational accusations.

I do hope that she gets to exhume the body and perform an autopsy so that she will be forced to justify her wild accusations. And that would be fun.

Morning Dew, I am all for a heathly debate and I do hope personal attacks can be excluded from this.

My stand on this issue is, let the justice dictated by truth and facts and not wild accusations that have no basis. Until and unless Dr Death produces facts to support her “finds”, the report of the first two pathologists must stand. For me, I keep an open mind until Dr Death can convince me other wise.

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]]> By: Morning Dew http://anilnetto.com/governance/accountability/dr-death-testifies-in-teoh-inquest/comment-page-4/#comment-33951 Morning Dew Sun, 25 Oct 2009 15:05:20 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=15913#comment-33951 Would you not agree that the documentations of all relevant evidences were already present within the documents given to her ? A physical examination will only confirm and perhaps also result in further discovery. But for all intents and purposes the evidences are already available to her and all who wish to examine it. The strangulation comment was a result of our own 2 pathologists observation of sub-dermal contusion. The 2 earlier pathologists chose to ignore this piece of very VITAL information. Why ? And why do you kept harping on this while your objection was already demolished earlier on ? Evidences of torture recorded by our 2 pathologists and confirmed by her were : a. Strangulation b. Anal tear c. Lashes on the tie And I suppose you are an expert ? Geez, K your spots are really showing... Would you not agree that the documentations of all relevant evidences were already present within the documents given to her ? A physical examination will only confirm and perhaps also result in further discovery. But for all intents and purposes the evidences are already available to her and all who wish to examine it.

The strangulation comment was a result of our own 2 pathologists observation of sub-dermal contusion. The 2 earlier pathologists chose to ignore this piece of very VITAL information. Why ? And why do you kept harping on this while your objection was already demolished earlier on ?

Evidences of torture recorded by our 2 pathologists and confirmed by her were :

a. Strangulation
b. Anal tear
c. Lashes on the tie

And I suppose you are an expert ?

Geez, K your spots are really showing…

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]]> By: Jey http://anilnetto.com/governance/accountability/dr-death-testifies-in-teoh-inquest/comment-page-4/#comment-33931 Jey Sun, 25 Oct 2009 05:37:01 +0000 http://anilnetto.com/?p=15913#comment-33931 I think they will claim that since there is a 20% probability so this is not convincingly conclusive as there is a 20% shadow of a doubt. Enough to throw away the expert opinion....? I think they will claim that since there is a 20% probability so this is not convincingly conclusive as there is a 20% shadow of a doubt. Enough to throw away the expert opinion….?

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